Skin Care.  You're probably not doing it right.  Even if you are, there is much to learn from this podversation with Justin and Andi Brown from Rhino Skin Solutions.  We talk skin types, how to use each of their individual products (and how not to), and how/why they work.  

These products have been a game changer for me, and I believe that they can be for you as well.  Rhino is giving our listeners a 15% off discount (offer expires March 31, 2017) on the products in their online store.  

Use the code: PowerCompany at checkout.  
All one word, capital P and capital C.  

Rhino also asked us to create a Power Company Performance Pack, which we were happy to do.  Nate and I have different types of skin, so we created a sampler pack of sorts that will allow you to find out which products work best for you and your skin type.  We get a small kickback when you buy the Performance Pack, so if you want to help support the podcast and step up your skin care game, this is a good way to do it!  

(**The Power Company Performance Pack is no longer available.**)

As always, please leave us an iTunes review, and share us on your social medias!  It's your help that keeps us growing, and we appreciate every one of you!  

We don't tweet.  We scream like eagles.  

Like what you hear?  Subscribe to The Power Company Podcast on ITunes, Google Play, or Stitcher Radio, and leave a rating and review!

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:00

Hey everybody, Kris here a couple of quick notes on this episode. We're talking with Rhino Skin Solutions, and they wanted me to let you know that their products and what they claim to do have not been approved by the FDA. I want to let you know that however they are approved by The Power Company, and Rhino was also nice enough, if you stick through to the end of the episode, you'll hear that they're giving us a discount code of 15% off of any of the products you order until March 31 2017. And that code is PowerCompany, all one word, capital P, capital C. And you know, we get nothing on this kickback. This is just for you guys. So it's not a sponsorship thing. We're still keeping this sponsor free. But I think it's a great product and you guys deserve to have it. So we are however, we talked to Rhino after they wanted to create a Power Company Performance Pack, what Nate and I recommend. And so we came up with a sampler pack of sorts. And Nate has different skin than I have. So you know, we we put together a pack that will allow you to figure out what works best for you. And you can find that on Rhino's website, RhinoSkinSolutions.com/store. Or you can go to powercompanyclimbing.com and on the show notes page for this episode, you can find the link there and we do get a small kickback from that. So if you guys want to help support the podcast, this is a great way to do it. I'm going to go ahead and launch into this episode and you guys are going to get another one in just a couple of days with Jonathan Siegrist. So enjoy this one.

Kris Hampton  02:13

What's up everybody? I'm your host Kris Hampton. Welcome to episode well, whatever episode this ends up being of the Power Company Podcast brought to you by powercompanyclimbing.com. This is gonna be a little extra bonus episode for you guys because well, frankly, you deserve it. And I'm here in the mobile Rhino laboratory, is that what this places is, in Merle?

Justin Brown  02:37

 Merle.

Kris Hampton  02:37

 I'm in Merle right now. And I'm here with the Rhino Skin Solutions, folks. And we are we're gonna talk skincare because it's something a lot of you are fucking up, really. I see a lot of you guys doing crazy shit to your skin. So we're gonna talk a little bit about it and what products Rhino has because I I really believe in this product. I reached out to these guys this fall when my I went into project mode way too soon in the Red and it was like 89 degrees and 100% humidity and and I was trying to do the short bouldery routes that have hard boulders right off the ground and I was destroying my skin. So I reached out to these guys on the recommendation of my good friend Collette and they sent me product and I loved it. You know, I've been using it since and my skin has been amazing. I've been climbing full time and haven't had a split. Haven't had a haven't had anything go wrong. I mean, my skin gets thin like a normal climbers would but it heals up in a couple of days. So So I wanted to bring these guys on for you guys. I think it's important that you know what they've got. So how about you guys introduce yourselves.

Justin Brown  03:53

I'm Justin, owner, Rhino Skin Solutions.

Kris Hampton  03:56

Okay. And

Andi Brown  03:57

I'm Andi, wife of Justin.

Kris Hampton  04:00

And you guys kind of got into skincare in a roundabout sort of way, right? Like you're Justin, you're a chef. And Andi, you're a pharmacist. 

Andi Brown  04:11

Yep.

Kris Hampton  04:12

 So you kind of have the perfect backgrounds. Like, you know the chemical side, Justin can cook, cook everything up, you know, you know how it's gonna all work together?

Justin Brown  04:22

Yeah, it was interesting. putting it together. We had some very in depth conversations in the house around the dinner table and we both been climbing for long enough that we knew we finally figured out what to do for our hands. And yeah, it was it was fun getting it going and seeing it work and we are where we are now.

Kris Hampton  04:47

Yeah. Why did you decide to try to make something for climbers' skincare? How'd that idea come about?

Justin Brown  04:56

Andy used to use a product called Aveda Foot cream. And you know me being your classic male rock climber, I never used any, anything on my hands, I would go rock climbing, I wouldn't wash them, I go sleep and eat Doritos, not necessarily in that order, and just have dirty hands. And Andy, at the end of every night would put on Aveda Foot Cream on her hands. And it smelled good. And one night I was like, Alright, let me let me try that. And so I put it on my hands. I had washed them that night. And

Kris Hampton  05:33

Haha that night, the first time of the trip?

Justin Brown  05:36

Haha yeah, well, it might have been at home. Firrst time in a while at home. Put it on my hands. And the next day, they felt great. All the chips were healed. And I was like, wow, there's something to this, I think. Yeah. So we started using it more often. And I used it start using it religiously. And

Kris Hampton  05:56

Now was Aveda Foot Cream just a moisturizer or is there some other component to it?

Justin Brown  06:01

Yeah, it's it's similar to the Rhino Repair Cream. It's got some menthol in there, botanicals. But the through through research and talking with Andi, the thing we found to be the most beneficial in there, other than the moisturizer was the salicylic acid. And we kind of did some research found out how much salicylic acid should go into cream or lotion to get the benefit we wanted. And we kind of played with it. I don't remember the exact percent that the FDA says you're allowed to put in foot cream but, or hand cream or lotion, but we kind of played with the high end and low end and came out somewhere in the middle. And so we looked at the rest of the ingredients and kind of got rid of the ones with really long complex names, kept the natural ones and kind of put it together and I think we did it because A, the Aveda Foot Cream was really expensive. And we're like I think we can make this.

Kris Hampton  07:16

 Yeah, the classic. 

Justin Brown  07:18

Classic climber like I think we could do this ourselves.

Kris Hampton  07:21

Money for more burritos.

Justin Brown  07:22

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Burritos in six packs. And, you know, we tried and we wasted a lot of a lot of product trying to make it.

Kris Hampton  07:32

I'm sure 

Justin Brown  07:32

And being unsuccessful. But I think we eventually made one that we were both really surprised felt good, worked and smell great, too.

Kris Hampton  07:40

Yeah. And did that first, like the first success? Is that what's Repair now or has it hasn't gone through other iterations?

Justin Brown  07:48

Oh, it's it's gone through a long, a lot of changes. The first one was a lot more water in it. We tried to make a thinner. We had a different bottle that was a pump so it had to be thinner to work in the small pump. And

Andi Brown  08:14

It had too much thyme in it.

Justin Brown  08:16

 Oh, yeah.

Andi Brown  08:17

Do you remember that?

Justin Brown  08:18

Like real rooty smelling.

Kris Hampton  08:20

Oh yeah.

Justin Brown  08:21

It was it was a little off putting actually. So it was real nice. 

Kris Hampton  08:27

That's when climbers were all hippies. 

Justin Brown  08:29

Exactly. Yeah, just like a year and a half ago, when they were all hippies.

Justin Brown  08:35

And what are we talking about? Oh, and so it was real watery, but it felt dry. And that was the number one thing we wanted. We didn't want it to be greasy. 

Kris Hampton  08:45

Yeah. 

Justin Brown  08:45

And it took some extra emulsifiers that we didn't want in there. And so it was we used two main ingredients to make it into a lotion. And it took a while to find out the correct percentages of each one. One's an emulsifier, ones a thickener, both vegetable based.

Kris Hampton  09:10

Why did it go lotion instead of you know, the typical climbing bar that we see out there?

Justin Brown  09:16

I think there's a lot of those out there. And they work for flappers and cuts for sure.

Kris Hampton  09:22

Yep. You can pack it in there.

Justin Brown  09:24

Yep. But for every day, healing of the skin, you don't necessarily just want an occlusive and that's basically what all the salves are. They, you just put a wax type thing on your hand, right and some of them have antibacterial properties too, which is great. Goes back to wash your hands, right? Just want to get rid of those bugs. But they're all just waxy occlusives and that holds moisture in your hand and that's why it helps heal. But we were seeing people put it on their hands and then they would wipe it on their pants because it would still have that greasy feeling on it. Or even testing out our product. It would be like, Oh, I don't want to try it. I have to work on my computer. And they just had that idea of putting a salve on their hands and then typing.

Kris Hampton  10:17

That's one of the things that makes me the most nervous about a lot of the products out there is how greasy I feel afterward. 

Justin Brown  10:24

Yeah. 

Justin Brown  10:24

 You got to hide it

Kris Hampton  10:24

You know, my fiancee won't even use it, a lot of the products, because it feels greasy. This is the first one actually that she's like, I have mine, normally I have my product, she has her expensive lotions and all this over here. And now she's like, Where's the Repair at? Where's the Performance?

Kris Hampton  10:28

 And I have to hide it. So she can't have it.

Justin Brown  10:45

Yeah, so that was basically what we wanted, we wanted a non greasy product. And the Aveda Foot Cream was non greasy. And so we kind of looked at how you get that done. We figured it out, we made the product. And that's, you know, one of our major marketing ideas is re educating everybody that we have a product, it's non greasy, you can put it on, it dries fairly quickly, within a minute, and you can go go about your day it absorbs in it, it like transports all the ingredients into your hand. So that's, that's kind of where we went with it.

Kris Hampton  11:23

Okay, the other interesting thing I think about your kind of just your whole product line in general is that it's not just, you don't just have moisturizers, there's, there's also, you know, first off Antihydral, a lot of you guys out there have heard of Antihydral, and, you know, a lot of people are nervous about Antihydral, and for good reason. You know, it's kind of a scary, strong angry products, you know, and I've seen it fuck up some people's fingers. And so a lot of people are scared to use it. You know, I get questions all the time. Do you use Antihydral? And I used to use it very, very little. Because I was nervous about it, you know, but you guys have taken, I guess and correct me if I'm wrong here, the the active ingredient from Antihydral, which means

Justin Brown  12:13

Methenamine

Kris Hampton  12:13

 Methenamine? Is that what its called?

Justin Brown  12:14

 Yep. 

Kris Hampton  12:15

And you've mixed it in with essentially, you know, Part methenamine and part moisturizer, is how I understand it.

Justin Brown  12:25

Yep. Exactly.

Kris Hampton  12:25

 In varying degrees for different products.

Justin Brown  12:27

Yeah. The Performance is the only one that is mixed with a skin conditioner. I like to use skin conditioner, because when people think of moisturizer

Kris Hampton  12:38

That's probably a better word.

Justin Brown  12:39

 Yeah. Because what we're going for is you don't want like hard, thick calluses, because they rip off, they break.

Justin Brown  12:49

And some people think you do. 

Justin Brown  12:49

Yeah. And so with the Performance, it has a skin conditioner to help keep your skin like more pliable, but it also has a very low concentration of methenamine, which is 4% which helps, the antiperspirant stops your hands from sweating.

Kris Hampton  13:08

Right.

Justin Brown  13:08

 And so Antihydral is 13% methenamine.

Kris Hampton  13:15

 Okay. 

Justin Brown  13:16

And so we the first the first thing we did actually was take Antihydral, and we took Aveda Foot Cream, and we put them together. And we brought it down to Bishop and a group of my friends used it and we were like, I think it's working. I'm not really sure, but I think it is and we use 

Kris Hampton  13:37

All these climbers, they're putting foot cream on their hands and did they freak out about that?

Justin Brown  13:41

They I think they freaked out more about the foot cream than they did about the Antihydral. Like he is it gonna make cuz everybody's like, Is it gonna make me grease off holds?

Kris Hampton  13:50

 Right.

Justin Brown  13:50

Because they want they wanted those big thick calluses. But we treated it like like Antihydral. Got the toothpicks out, put a nice little bit on there. And yeah, you know, we all had great, great trip and sent our projects. And I was like, Hmm, maybe there's something to it. And so we made the Performance. That was probably our second, we had Repair and Performance. And that was our first two products.

Kris Hampton  14:21

Okay, and

Justin Brown  14:22

About methenamine, I think there you're saying like people are scared of it. 

Kris Hampton  14:27

Yeah. 

Justin Brown  14:28

And I think people get scared of it because it is super potent. In that paste of Antihydral, you put a lot of it on your hand and then people sleep with it. And so you're getting a lot of the product into your hand. And so we tried to make a product that you couldn't overdo. And that all depends on your skin type. But it's a lot harder to overdo it with the Performance cream or the Dry spray. But scientifically, if we can go in this tangent.

Kris Hampton  15:05

 Sure.

Justin Brown  15:06

Methenamine isn't dangerous at the levels climbers are using it at. I think it's, there's a common, there's a common thought that you're putting formaldehyde on your hand. 

Kris Hampton  15:20

Right. Right. Right. And I'm just thinking dangerous in the terms of it's gonna be drying and cracking your skin.

Justin Brown  15:25

Yeah, yeah. 

Kris Hampton  15:26

So not like, causing cancer and yeah,

Justin Brown  15:29

Yeah, it's not gonna cause cancer. The formaldehyde evaporates off your hands.

Kris Hampton  15:33

 Right. 

Justin Brown  15:33

And I think we've made a product that like, you can't, it's hard to overuse it. Maybe with the Dry spray, if you already have dry hands, you might have some negative effects. It's just harder, it's harder to overuse it and I think a lot a lot of people be more successful with what we offer then with Antihydral. 

Kris Hampton  15:54

Yep. Okay. And I you know, Antihydral has been around a long time, a long time. And it was, it was developed a long time ago was it developed specifically for people with hydro...

Justin Brown  16:04

 Hyperhidrosis 

Kris Hampton  16:05

Hyperhidrosis that what it was called? And that's what it was developed for, right?

Justin Brown  16:09

Yeah, yep. Antihydral that's what its for.

Kris Hampton  16:13

Okay and that's been around eons. And, you know, climbers don't have excessively sweaty hands. Most of them don't. Maybe Nate does. At least he believes he is. So so we don't necessarily need that amount of drying anyway. And you were saying something last night that dry fingers don't heal?

Justin Brown  16:36

Right. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  16:36

So let's talk a little bit about skincare in general. Some of the, you know, beliefs about skincare that aren't really true.

Justin Brown  16:45

What are the beliefs that are not true? Well, we already did you want thick, hard calluses, right?

Kris Hampton  16:51

Right. People think you want these super thick, you know, little hooves on your fingers that turn yellow. And, you know, and that's not really the case, right?

Justin Brown  17:00

Yeah. But that's also fed into another fad, that I really don't think is that great, of people incessantly filing their skin to, because I've seen people file their skin straight into a hole, like, literally been filing their fingers and then like, Oh, no, I'm bleeding.

Kris Hampton  17:20

Yeah, like, I wonder if it's become a habit like chalking up.

Justin Brown  17:23

Right. Oh, yeah. I can see that.

Kris Hampton  17:25

Because I stand there and just chalk up sometimes. 

Justin Brown  17:27

Yeah. Well before you're about to jump on and go on anytime soon. 

Kris Hampton  17:31

Yeah, I'm eating a burrito and I'm chalking up.

Justin Brown  17:35

Magnesium in the diet is probably good for you.

Kris Hampton  17:36

So I wonder I've seen the same thing. People just sitting there chatting and sanding away at their fingertips, you know? 

Justin Brown  17:43

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  17:43

So why should we sand our tips? What's what's the purpose behind it?

Justin Brown  17:46

Um, you know, I actually don't sand my tips, but I'll sand my creases. I found that hangboarding increases the skin in my crease. It makes this skin in my creases thicker. And so those are more prone to split in. They don't necessarily crack. I have fairly wet skin so they won't crack on their own. But if there's tough skin, in my creases, that gets hooked on holds and it'll just peel it off. It'll rip it. 

Kris Hampton  17:50

Gotcha.

Justin Brown  18:02

And so what I found myself doing was just finally filing down my creases until they're like, pretty thin. Just to keep them flexible. Keep them from getting hooked on stuff. Pad wise, I don't really file my pads. I mean, you can see they're like, they're pretty good. They're smooth. Yeah, I rock climbed all day today and they are like, pretty good.

Kris Hampton  18:41

Yeah, I think the only time I sand or file my pads is, first off, I'm never going to get calluses thick enough that I need to sand down my pads because I'm rock climbing right now. So I'm wearing the skin off. That's usually the problem I think. But when I do tear little pieces of skin and they're uneven, you know ridges on pads, then I sand those down. That's really the only time that that I pull out a sanding block.

Justin Brown  19:08

Yeah, I had a I had a callus, you know there's a lot of roof problems here in Hueco and I had a callus on some lower fingers and I sanded those off because I felt them like getting pulled off.

Kris Hampton  19:19

Yep, I get the little jug calluses and those kind of things.

Justin Brown  19:22

Yeah, I got to get rid of these. So you know there's there's definitely times that I sand but I think I'm lucky I don't get the I don't get those little ridges of skin at all. I don't really know why, but I definitely get crease build up. And I definitely send those off. 

Kris Hampton  19:40

Okay.

Andi Brown  19:41

What grit of sandpaper do you use?

Justin Brown  19:43

Good question. I think 80 and 100 grit is the best. We have some nail files that we bought. And they're on the website. Shameless plug, but they're 80, 100. You can find them pretty much anywhere. They're washable and

Kris Hampton  20:01

Those the same ones that come in the the little packs that you guys have?

Justin Brown  20:06

Exactly. 

Kris Hampton  20:06

Okay cool. Yeah, those are great.

Justin Brown  20:08

Yeah. Durable. They don't seem to wear out real fast. I guess that's what durable means.

Kris Hampton  20:13

Yep. Annalissa stole that pretty quickly 

Justin Brown  20:15

Gone

Kris Hampton  20:16

As soon as it was there, I haven't seen it again because it went into her bag so.

Justin Brown  20:19

Oh boy 

Kris Hampton  20:20

Yeah. And so let's talk you know a little more about skincare. Clipping, you know, when should you be clipping at your skin?

Justin Brown  20:29

Yeah, you know if you have a flapper, I got a gnarly flapper the other day, and it had like real big ridges all around it. Just ripped a real deep flapper right in right off. And so I clipped that off and then I kind of trimmed it up to make it a little bit more smooth. 

Kris Hampton  20:54

Yeah, you kind of bevel the edges

Justin Brown  20:56

Yeah, exactly. And I haven't gotten to the state where, I haven't gotten to the proficiency where I get a razor to it

Kris Hampton  21:05

Right

Justin Brown  21:05

 It's a little tricky 

Kris Hampton  21:05

Some people do that.

Justin Brown  21:06

 Yeah, I don't I don't I work with knives plenty. I don't i don't need razor blades close to my skin. And that seems to help cuticles. I'll clip my cuticles down because I find it helps prevent them from just popping open and bleeding. 

Kris Hampton  21:24

Yep.

Justin Brown  21:26

 But I also take Repair cream and rub it into the cuticles as well keep them nice and flexible. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I think I think like, like Nate, my skin's pretty moist in general. And so it's mostly good. I don't have a lot of maintenance

Kris Hampton  21:44

 And you have drier skin Andi? 

Justin Brown  21:45

Yeah Andi has drier skin.

Andi Brown  21:46

Yeah my skin is a little bit too dry.

Kris Hampton  21:49

 Okay. Do you ever use the Performance at all or 

Andi Brown  21:52

No, I only use the Repair. Always Repair. 

Kris Hampton  21:55

Okay, I think that's something interesting because a lot of people you know will latch on automatically to the things that have drying agents in them because they're just like my skin needs to be drier. It needs to be dry. And I think that's skipping a really important component of it, especially right after you finish climbing. If your skin, you know if you've got that Red River jug rash or something like that, and and you're not going to be climbing tomorrow, if you've got a few days before you climb again. I think Repair is the only option there. 

Justin Brown  22:25

Yeah

Kris Hampton  22:26

In my mind. 

Justin Brown  22:26

Absolutely.

Kris Hampton  22:27

 I could be totally wrong but 

Justin Brown  22:28

No I agree.

Justin Brown  22:29

Yeah. Can we back up for a second cuz I'm interested? Do you clip your skin? And what do you do?

Kris Hampton  22:29

In my mind that's what I reach for immediately. So now let's talk about the the products a little bit. What you've got and and what they're for. Because when you guys sent me the first box of stuff, I definitely I spent some time on the site trying to learn when do I use what and I went into it with the idea that I'm going to try and review all these products so I want to use them how they suggest that I use them. And and basically the suggestions you gave are what I followed and and how I would continue to do it. So let's just give everybody a primer on each product so they know what they're getting into, kind of starting from base level.

Kris Hampton  23:15

 I do not clip my skin unless I have like rolled up edges, you know, little tears, things like that and then I clip it smooth just like we were talking about with the edge of a flapper. I clip all that down smooth and then I try to sand it a little smoother. Annalissa clips her skin incessantly, constantly and I'm like what are you doing? You need to stop. 

Justin Brown  23:37

Does she have like little calluses she's clipping on?

Kris Hampton  23:40

No, I think it's just a habit at this point. I think she she just pulls out the clippers. We've got like five pairs of clippers in the car, everywhere she's going to be, so that at any moment she can grab clippers and start clipping little

Justin Brown  23:51

Oh boy 

Kris Hampton  23:52

Little pieces off of her skin. So

Justin Brown  23:54

 I don't know what's going on there 

Kris Hampton  23:56

But hopefully I'm gonna make her listen to this and just stop. Yeah, but yeah, I just I just click the little edges. Just to smooth things out. Really that's it.  I'm trying to get my fingers smooth. That's my goal.

Justin Brown  24:09

Yeah I think that is the goal. Just get them smooth enough where they're not gonna catch on some crystals. Cool. Products.

Kris Hampton  24:15

Okay, yeah, let's do it.

Justin Brown  24:16

What do we got? Well, like we were saying our main flagship products, the Repair Cream. It's every day. Whenever however often you want to do it. Put it on your hands, clean hands, wash your hands, get all that chalk, all the dirt off of them and then Repair Cream. It's got like menthol in it. And that smells good. It's a analgesic, which takes care of some pain. It's got peppermint oil in there, willow bark, which has some it's kind of similar to salicylic acid, and it's a way we can bump the acidity up to help your skin turnover because what's salicylic acid does is it gets rid of the chipped up layers on top and helps bring the good skin down low to the top. And so it's interesting to get rid of all that messed up skin and that this could be why I don't file as much maybe is when I use Repair Cream it's getting rid of all that chipped up gnarly skin that you'd usually file off.

Kris Hampton  25:20

Yep. Okay. And I think the Repair. I think it's important because what you said last night that I've already talked about, is dry skin doesn't heal. 

Justin Brown  25:30

Mm hmm. 

Kris Hampton  25:30

You know, and we're going out there and we're abusing our skin. 

Justin Brown  25:34

Yes. 

Kris Hampton  25:35

You know, that's what we do all day long. And then we just expect it to heal overnight. So it needs to be moisturize or conditioned?

Justin Brown  25:44

Yep. Yeah, I think if you look at the body's natural process, when we're climbing, we haven't measured it. We have that little handy measuring tool. But when we're climbing. I think we're all going to get our skin pretty dry. The chalk's on our hands. I bet if we measured it, we're all if we feel we have good skin, I bet we're in the low 30% moisture humidity in our skin. Andi is usually around 22.

Kris Hampton  26:11

Wow. 

Justin Brown  26:11

But you think that's too dry.

Andi Brown  26:13

I think that's too dry.

Justin Brown  26:14

Yep.

Kris Hampton  26:15

 You're dry firing off of things, that's why you think it's too dry? 

Andi Brown  26:18

Yeah. So took me a while to figure that out. But I would notice on, at least at Smith, on more relatively humid days that I was climbing better, and I wasn't coming off. And so now we're kind of in the process of maybe creating coming up with a formula for humectant. So something to help with dry skin. So the opposite.

Kris Hampton  26:41

 Okay. Yeah, I have a few friends that either, you know, before they get on a boulder, they'll dip their hands in water, you know, or, you know, Nick Duttle can't sweat, so he carries around a spray bottle. You know. So you're looking at that end of people, with Nick being the far extreme.

Andi Brown  26:59

Yeah, yeah. So what I've gotten into the habit of doing is, I'm, I still use chalk because I'm just conditioned to use it. It feels better to have it on my hands. But I also kind of blow on my hands, right before I get go onto the wall, just for to add a little bit of humidity.

Kris Hampton  27:17

 Okay. 

Andi Brown  27:18

That's not necessarily sanitary, so if there were a different way for me to get moisture into my skin, right, I'd prefer to do that. I've been spreading my germs on the wall.

Kris Hampton  27:27

Interesting, I don't know that anyone's ever tried to reach out to that. And you know, and you can't just use a normal lotion, because that's, that's adding oil to it. 

Justin Brown  27:39

Yeah, so yeah, with our little skin moisture reader. We're have

Kris Hampton  27:43

Do you have that handy, by the way?

Justin Brown  27:44

Um, I would have to look for it. I think. I think it's back here. But it's not handy. 

Kris Hampton  27:51

Okay. I was I was curious, because I was using Repair last night, and I measured my fingers. And it was 99. 

Justin Brown  27:57

Yep. Yep. 

Kris Hampton  27:58

Which is great. Since I was trying to heal my skin. 

Justin Brown  28:01

Yeah, exactly. 

Kris Hampton  28:02

And I used Performance about an hour ago. So I was curious if it was any different.

Justin Brown  28:06

 So the way that thing works is it measures the conductivity between your on your skin. And so water is really conductive. And so if it has low conductivity, or low moisture, it's gonna have a lower number. And so when you put any lotion on your hand, or any balm, oil is super conductive, and so it's going to read 99% almost all the time.

Kris Hampton  28:34

 Gotcha. 

Justin Brown  28:34

Unless it you you've totally absorbed. Like, I don't know how long ago you did it. It might have absorbed.

Kris Hampton  28:41

 That makes sense. 

Justin Brown  28:42

But like, I was going somewhere with this.

Kris Hampton  28:47

We right after we derailed you,

Justin Brown  28:49

Right after you're done rock climbing, you can look at your tips and your body's like we need to heal these things.

Kris Hampton  28:55

Yeah. And they're, they're glistening.

Justin Brown  28:57

Yeah, exactly. They're pink, they're swollen, they're wet. And so that's your body saying like, alright, I'm gonna make the perfect environment to make this thing heal. 

Kris Hampton  29:07

Sure. 

Justin Brown  29:08

But if you use moving on from our Repair Cream, if you use the Performance or the Dry Spray, that's going to create a drier environment on your fingertips. And so when you're rock climbing, why we say you want durable, flexible dry skin, is because if you're on those holds, whether they're slopers or crimpers and you have low humidity on your fingers and like I think 35% maybe 35 to 40 seems like kind of ideal before you start greasing off holds because your hands are too dry. So if you have the perfect humidity on your fingers, your skin moves less on the holds. So you're not gonna, you're not gonna grab a crimper and your fingers aren't gonna start rolling off the hold and abrading. So the less abrasion you have, the less your body's gonna have to heal your skin and the less moisture its gonna send there as well. 

Kris Hampton  30:06

Right. Okay, so when do we use the Performance? Is it...do we only....do we wait until our skin is already seepy and 

Justin Brown  30:17

Too late. 

Kris Hampton  30:18

That's too late. 

Justin Brown  30:18

Yeah, for sure. The way, so for all you sport climbers out there, I am an every other move chalker. I can rarely make it through a complicated crux without chalking.

Kris Hampton  30:34

Yep, that's something I actually practiced for, for a whole season, forcing myself to not chalk through long sequences. Now I'm much better at it.

Justin Brown  30:42

Yeah, I did the same thing. Because there was, there was like a 20 foot panel I had to get through.

Kris Hampton  30:48

 Yep. 

Justin Brown  30:48

And yeah, just no time to chalk. And so the way I do it, is I go Dry Spray for one day. And then if I have a climbing week, where I know I'm going to climb like two days on one day off 

Kris Hampton  31:04

Is this when you have the seepy tips?

Justin Brown  31:06

Before. This is let's just given like perfect skin for you. The best skin you can possibly start with for your sport climb.

Kris Hampton  31:14

 Yep. 

Justin Brown  31:15

So so the night before my first day of sport climbing or maybe even three nights before if I want to like dial my skin in before I go. And this, this goes for bouldering as well. Dry Spray because that, for me gives the most effective antiperspirant dose available. I spray it all over my hands, I rub it in. Forget about it. The next day, if I go climbing, they should be drier than nothing. And then I can tell that day like Ah, I think they could be a little drier. And for me, that's usually the case. And so I'll go Performance. And so first day Dry Spray, second day Performance and if I'm if I'm planning like, two on one off, two on one off, climbing spree, I'll do Performance the night before every single, every single one of those climbing days.

Kris Hampton  32:14

And then before your rest day. 

Justin Brown  32:16

I'll do Repair.

Kris Hampton  32:17

You'll do Repair.

Justin Brown  32:17

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  32:17

Okay. 

Justin Brown  32:18

Yeah, because the methenamine works for three days. It creates this little protein plug. So you put methenamine on your skin, your skin sweats, your sweat is slightly acidic, and it breaks the methenamine in two and that's where people that's that causes the formaldehyde that people talk about. Because methenamine is half formaldehyde.

Kris Hampton  32:41

Ah ok.

Justin Brown  32:41

 So when it breaks in two, you have formaldehyde and ammonia. Both of those evaporate and it creates a protein plug. And that protein plug goes into your sweat gland, and it stays there for three days. 

Kris Hampton  32:53

Okay,

Justin Brown  32:53

 And so you can with the Performance or the Dry or any with any methenamine product, if you use it more than once every three days, you're gonna build increasing antiperspirant conditions. I don't really know how else to say that. 

Kris Hampton  33:09

Gotcha. I know what you mean. 

Justin Brown  33:11

So for me, I have pretty sweaty hands. I'll use the Performance two days on one day off two days on one day off for as long as I have that climbing trip.

Kris Hampton  33:22

Yep. Okay. That makes total sense then. I like the the description of how methenamine works.

Justin Brown  33:28

Yeah, it's pretty interesting. 

Kris Hampton  33:29

Yeah. And it puts a visual in my head that makes sense. You know, it's not it doesn't seem just like magic anymore.

Justin Brown  33:36

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  33:36

Well, still kind of seems like magic.

Justin Brown  33:38

 Yeah, it's a little bit of magic. I'm always surprised it works. I'm like, I don't get it. But it works. 

Kris Hampton  33:43

Yeah. So if you're, if you're already seepy, thin skin, is that just a Repair moment? Like?

Justin Brown  33:52

That is a good question. I don't think I have the complete answer for that yet. Some people have luck. If you're, I think the answer is just like if you drink too much beer, the only way to overcome being drunk is just to wait it out.

Kris Hampton  34:13

 Right, right.

Justin Brown  34:14

 There's no amount of coffee that's gonna help. There's no amount of aspirin, you just got to wait. And so if you have seepy tips, there's not a lot you can do. There's, you just kind of have to wait. I know some people,

Kris Hampton  34:27

But you can use Repair in that situation? 

Justin Brown  34:29

Yeah, you can, Repair will help because it's a it's a antibacterial, so it'll keep your skin a little cleaner. It's an occlusive so it'll keep the moisture in there. It'll it'll definitely help help get that skin regeneration for sure.

Kris Hampton  34:43

So Repair is exactly what it sounds like. It's to Repair things. Performance, you guys say it's for road trip, sending sprees. You know, I think that's what it says on the bottle maybe on your site. 

Justin Brown  34:53

Yep

Kris Hampton  34:54

And, and that sounds like pretty much what you just described. The Dry is similar to the same thing. But more concentrated.

Justin Brown  35:05

Yes. So the Performance has a skin conditioner and methenamine. It's 4%. 

Kris Hampton  35:11

And the Dry is higher?

Justin Brown  35:11

Exactly. It's a 4%. The Performance is 4% methenamine. The Dry is 8%.

Kris Hampton  35:17

Okay, so it's not quite to the level of Antihydral.

Justin Brown  35:19

 Exactly.It's 2/3 as strong.

Kris Hampton  35:21

Okay. They won't mess your creases up, putting it in the creases? 

Justin Brown  35:26

Not across the board. If you already have semi dry hands and just want a little extra dry, it could mess your creases up just because you already have dry hands. 

Kris Hampton  35:36

Gotcha. 

Justin Brown  35:37

But we have a little roller applicator as well. So you can just pinpoint

Justin Brown  35:41

 I like that one.

Justin Brown  35:42

Pinpoint your fingers. I think that was that's probably the number one feedback we had was, Hey, can you guys have a roll on applicator some something else? So the National Institute of Health did studies with methenamine. And the quantity the percentage of methenamine they used was 8%. And so the studies we were reading were like, well, let's just do that. Because it seems super effective. 

Kris Hampton  36:08

Yeah. 

Justin Brown  36:09

So it's an alcohol based instead of skin conditioner based. We made it for one of our test subjects has really sweaty hands. Very moist, high skin turnover. And he was just like, Look, when you put this in a skin conditioner, my hands just are so wet. Nothing happens. I could use it 13 times a day, and it wouldn't help. 

Kris Hampton  36:33

Right, right.

Justin Brown  36:34

 So we put in alcohol, the alcohol helps get the grease off your hands. And there's some menthol in there as well. Kind of that cooling anti inflammatory effect.

Kris Hampton  36:46

Gotcha. So if you're pretty dry skinned already, Dry is probably not something you need. Or

Justin Brown  36:53

Yeah, I would say that our number one thing is we don't want people to mess their skin up and have to take a day off of rock climbing. So I'm always a little more.

Kris Hampton  37:04

Don't let any of my clients hear that because I'm trying to get them all to rest more as it is.

Justin Brown  37:09

Yeah. Just kidding. But messing up your skin isn't the best way to force yourself to rest. 

Kris Hampton  37:15

No that's not the reason to rest for sure

Justin Brown  37:17

The better way to rest is just wear sandals and drink margaritas.

Kris Hampton  37:21

Yep, lay in the sun. 

Justin Brown  37:22

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  37:23

Okay, and then what else do we have here? We've got your Split Stick. Is that right?

Justin Brown  37:28

Yep. There's a Split Stick. We, you know, just being a skincare company, we wanted to do the non greasy thing. We have the Repair, the Performance, the Dry, all non greasy. But we just felt that we needed to to have a product that was in that salve segment. 

Kris Hampton  37:52

Something you could pack into your little split and things like that?

Justin Brown  37:55

 Exactly, yeah, yeah. If you have a split or gobie, you don't really want the Repair going in there. If you want to use the Repair, because it's going to help your skin heal, It's going to create a good environment. So we made the Split Stick.

Kris Hampton  38:12

 Why would you not want the Repair to go in there?

Justin Brown  38:14

 Because it's got salicylic acid. So it's not going to feel that great.

Kris Hampton  38:18

Sting a little?

Justin Brown  38:19

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  38:19

 And definitely, I have a habit of rubbing my eyes, no matter what I just touched and I can definitely feel it when I rub my eyes after putting Repair on. I'll do it immediately. Every single time, it doesn't matter

Justin Brown  38:31

Haha yeah just scratch your nose or whatever. 

Kris Hampton  38:33

Exactly.

Justin Brown  38:34

 I always go to my temples. And it feels really good.

Kris Hampton  38:37

 That's a good idea.

Justin Brown  38:38

 So the Split Stick comes in two sizes. Stick and a tin. And it's got beeswax and grapeseed oil, which has a high high amount of vitamin D in there, some Arnica, honey, tea tree oil. And so it's got some antibacterial properties. But basically the reason it works to to help heal splits and gobies is because it's an occlusive. It's keeping moisture in. And if you look at a split or gobie, they weep. And so that's your body just pushing moisture out trying to keep it keep it a good humidity level. And so this just helps with that. And then like you said, you can pack it in there and then put on Repair on top and that's the way to go.

Kris Hampton  39:23

Okay, speaking of splits, I don't think we even really talked about like those. Those little smiley face splits that people get from crimping, I'm sure you guys see them in Smith all the damn time.

Justin Brown  39:34

Oh yeah, our buddy Mike, who was just on the trip with us. He got a split his very first day here. It was a it was a gnarly one. I was like, is that all the way to the bone? It wasn't.

Kris Hampton  39:45

Did you guys deal with those in the same way as as we talked about with flappers just trimming the edges down or 

Justin Brown  39:51

Yeah, I think so. I tried to give, give him advice and I think everybody deals with it their their own way. But um, yeah, I think just trimming those edges, getting them nice and beveled. And you know, there's there's different theories about sleeping with your finger straight open. 

Kris Hampton  40:12

Yeah, I was gonna ask you, if you recommend splinting fingers, like a lot of people do.

Justin Brown  40:18

I'm not sure. I haven't really studied it or looked into studies. I think the reason people split their finger, it just occurred to me a couple of days ago, when I was talking with Mike. I just threw him under the bus, I guess. But he was

Kris Hampton  40:35

Here it comes Mike

Justin Brown  40:36

He's a big fan of splinting his finger. He was actually doing a band aid with tape on top. 

Kris Hampton  40:42

Okay,

Justin Brown  40:43

But that, I don't think you need to do that. I think it's people do it because they find they sleep with their hand in a fist. And then in the morning, they open their hand and their skin splits again. 

Kris Hampton  40:55

Right. 

Justin Brown  40:56

And the reason it's going to split is because is because it's probably too dry. And so when you when you sleep, in a splint, with your fingers open, it does a couple things, it's gonna keep a lot more moisture in your finger where it's split. And so your skin's gonna be a lot more flexible. And so when you move it around, it's not going to tear apart and it's not going to be chapped. And then, you know, it might, it might also create a environment where it does heal from from the bottom to the top. And that would be good. If you have your split open, nicely trimmed or clean, it's gonna, the skin is gonna grow from the bottom to the top instead of from the sides.

Kris Hampton  41:47

 Okay.

Justin Brown  41:48

 Again, I haven't really looked into it too much. So it's all speculation,

Kris Hampton  41:54

I wondered because you know, as a, coming from a gymnastics background, when we would get flappers from you know, from rings or bars or whatever, we would moisturize a ton, you know, and, and I've continued to do that as a climber, and pretty much every single winter. Just because of, you know, baseboard heat in my house, my skin gets super dry. I get one of those little smiley face splits on every finger, except for my pinky because I don't use my pinky. On all six of the other fingers, I get one every winter. And then I I trim off the sides. And I 

Justin Brown  42:40

Where do you get it on your fingers?

Kris Hampton  42:42

It's always

Justin Brown  42:42

 Right above the crease? 

Kris Hampton  42:44

Right above the crease. Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  42:45

Okay. And kind of on the, I guess the pinky side of the finger. That's where it is every single time. 

Justin Brown  42:53

So one thing I've been thinking about the those splits is, well, I guess there's two things, what causes them? And how do you prevent them? And so when you're hanging on a hangboard, where does that edge hit your fingers? 

Kris Hampton  43:09

What's not

Justin Brown  43:10

 When you're doing like, max hangs or something.

Kris Hampton  43:12

For me its not, it's not where the edge hits. It's that my skin is pulling there and it's partly because I I hold everything half crimped. So I'm never you know, that joint is never pointed down on a hold. It's always pulling my skin.

Justin Brown  43:28

 Right. Okay.

Kris Hampton  43:29

 And it just tears.

Justin Brown  43:31

 It literally just tears it apart 

Kris Hampton  43:33

A little tear every single time. 

Justin Brown  43:35

Interesting. 

Kris Hampton  43:36

And, and I mean, I can watch it start to happen, and I've felt it pull apart while I'm hangboarding, pulling piece by piece by piece until it pops.

Justin Brown  43:47

You know that I had a similar feeling to that a couple weeks ago on a Moon Board. It was my first ever Moon Board session. I was trying hard. It was really disappointing. But but I, I was grabbing a pinch and like just leaning back against it pushing my foot in the opposition. And I felt my skin do the exact same thing, start to tear and I was like Oh no. And I was like I wonder if this is gonna work. I grabbed some Repair Cream and just jammed it right into there and like really not very much just enough to cover right where I felt that tear start and on my skin there wasn't a tear but I you know, it felt like it was gonna go 

Kris Hampton  44:31

Yep. 

Justin Brown  44:32

And I finished the session and it didn't tear so so that might be like you you've entered the the too dry zone maybe.

Kris Hampton  44:43

Yeah, I think that's exactly what's going on. Because this winter I wasn't in the house at all. I was outside all the time. And before I messaged you guys, I was starting to get a little bit of a tear from climbing on all these tiny little crimps. And in that that almost tear persisted for quite a while. And I just kept trimming the edges down. But it never ever got to the point of blood. And now it's healed. But I've not stopped climbing at all. Whereas every other winter, my skin would get too dry. I would get one tear every single winter on tear on each finger. Trim the edges of it. 

Justin Brown  45:27

So brutal.

Kris Hampton  45:27

Moisturize, and then it would be fine a few days later. But I've never slept with my, you know, my finger splinted or kept open in any way. So, and it's never retorn. So I was just curious what your thoughts are there

Justin Brown  45:41

I think just keeping that proper humidity of your fingers.

Kris Hampton  45:45

Yeah, I think that's probably more important than keeping it straight. 

Justin Brown  45:49

Yeah, cuz, I mean, I can see that. And another thing I was thinking is it happens the same place every time. 

Kris Hampton  45:54

Yeah. 

Justin Brown  45:55

And I was wondering if like, on my fingers, there's like two creases, actually per joint. And I was wondering for people that get a ton of splits, if they filed their creases more if they actually change where their crease was.

Kris Hampton  46:12

Okay, 

Justin Brown  46:13

I don't know. It's a theory of mine.

Kris Hampton  46:14

I can see what you are saying.

Justin Brown  46:14

Yeah, so if you file down so far, that you constantly have new skin growing there, if it, because on my like, I'm looking at my hand. 

Kris Hampton  46:23

I kinda get two slightly overlapping creases when I bend those joints, and definitely one of those creases is where the split happens.

Justin Brown  46:33

Yep. So if you like file that down enough, where it's super soft, and you are still bending your fingers is that is that crease gonna change place? And I have no idea if it would or wouldnt.

Kris Hampton  46:46

 Hmm, interesting idea.

Justin Brown  46:47

But it might, if you if you do that consistently enough

Kris Hampton  46:50

We're all just sitting here staring at our fingers now.

Justin Brown  46:52

 Classic

Kris Hampton  46:54

 Which is what climbers do all the time.

Justin Brown  46:56

 Either your phone or the fingers. 

Kris Hampton  46:57

Yeah. 

Justin Brown  46:58

If you file all that down enough, and you just go about your day and just really incessantly keep that skin thin, but hydrated, is that crease gonna change? That's my newest theory. 

Kris Hampton  47:11

Okay, you're gonna test that out.

Kris Hampton  47:12

Yeah, we'll have you back on after you test that theory out.

Justin Brown  47:12

All you out there, get on Kris's Facebook. 

Justin Brown  47:19

 All right. 

Kris Hampton  47:19

See if we can debunk J Star's splinting finger method.

Justin Brown  47:23

Splinting the fingers. Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  47:25

Yeah. Okay. You have other products.

Justin Brown  47:29

We do. We got Mikey's Tip Juice. And that is just about Antihydral strength. 

Kris Hampton  47:37

That's the strong shit.

Justin Brown  47:38

 Yep. Right now we put it in with aloe, because I wanted to keep that skin moisture. Aloe is a humectant. So it'll, it'll transport, transport moisture and, and the dissolved products in there, which is alcohol and methenamine it'll transport all of that into your skin

Kris Hampton  47:59

Okay, so it brings it in instead of sitting on the top like Antihydral. 

Justin Brown  48:04

Exactly. Yeah, that's what humectant is, something like honey or glycerine or those are the two best examples I can think of. It brings moisture into your skin. We were actually talking about this other day. Does a humectant, this is a question for Andi, does a does a humectant bring transport moisture into your skin? Or does it help bring moisture that's really far in your fingers to the top?

Andi Brown  48:35

What did you find out?

Justin Brown  48:36

Haha I'm asking you to help. My, I think my understanding is it takes the moisture that is in the humectant and brings it further into your skin. But somebody somebody was like, No, I don't think so. So we're gonna have to look that up.

Kris Hampton  48:51

 That's interesting. I know a lot of gymnasts actually put honey on their hands before they chalk. 

Justin Brown  48:57

Right. 

Kris Hampton  48:58

And I wonder if it does it so it does it take the moisture off of the surface?

Justin Brown  49:03

I think it pushes I think it pushes moisture further in. 

Kris Hampton  49:08

Okay.

Justin Brown  49:08

It definitely doesn't take it off the surface, but I think it would probably make your hands more, this is really interesting that gymnasts have been doing this for a while and it hasn't made it to climbing yet. 

Kris Hampton  49:20

Yeah

Justin Brown  49:21

And it's kind of what I've been thinking like Alright, let's make a humectant that we can put on our hands and and keep that skin flexible. 

Kris Hampton  49:28

Be interesting to try it. You know my only worry would be overusing honey and then getting honey on holds and that would be horrible.

Justin Brown  49:39

Yeah,

Kris Hampton  49:40

But yeah, gymnasts have used honey and some use Coca Cola on their hands. 

Justin Brown  49:45

It would be it's a it's gonna be like a high sugar content, thicker syrup, so I can see that.

Kris Hampton  49:51

Yeah, that's just interesting. I never even thought about trying it as a climber. I'd be willing to try it indoors first, and see what happens.

Justin Brown  49:59

Yeah, just try it at your kitchen table first and see what happens. 

Kris Hampton  50:00

Yeah

Justin Brown  50:04

We definitely put, well, we, I'm looking at Andi, but I think I was probably the only one that did it. I definitely put glycerin and honey on my hands while we're making this just to see like, what it did. 

Kris Hampton  50:17

Yeah. 

Justin Brown  50:18

And it's not as sticky as you would think. And you can always wipe it off. But maybe if we had like a humectant, which would be glycerin or honey, in, in a different solution that was able to bring it into your hands. That'd be interesting. That's something we'll have to play with.

Kris Hampton  50:36

Yeah, I like that you guys are thinking outside the box here, you know, with all sorts of directions, you know, targeting the people who have super dry skin. People who have super wet skin. I think that's, you know, trying to figure out what's the best for each person.

Justin Brown  50:54

Yeah, get the systems.

Kris Hampton  50:55

This is this is the product for everybody. You know, I think that fits right into what we do. Because you know, we don't we don't believe in a one size fits all approach to training and I think it should probably be the same with skincare. We don't all have the same skin. 

Justin Brown  51:09

Oh, no. Not even close.

Kris Hampton  51:11

Cool. Anything else you guys have that you put out there or any anything you want to put out into the into the interwebs

Justin Brown  51:19

Wash your hands. Wash your hands immediately after you're done rock climbing, get the chalk off of them, and then put on some Repair Cream, drink a beer. 

Kris Hampton  51:28

Yeah, good advice.

Justin Brown  51:30

That's our thing.

Kris Hampton  51:31

Where can people find you?

Justin Brown  51:32

Rhinoskinsolutions.com. You can order anything you want off of our website right there. We are in a few retail outlets across the country. You can check out our website for those, mostly climbing gyms. There's a couple stores, Redpoint Climbing in Terre Bonne and then Rock and Snow in New Paltz. Those are our retail outlets that are actually just stores and not gyms. But we're in quite a few gyms as well.

Kris Hampton  52:04

 Okay, cool. Question for you guys. I'm going to put you on the spot here. Can we make a discount code for The Power Company Podcast listeners to shore

Justin Brown  52:16

Absolutely. What should it be? Power Company right Power Company in

Kris Hampton  52:22

Yeah let's just go Power Company. Sweet.

Justin Brown  52:24

And 15% off

Kris Hampton  52:26

 Cool. Yeah, I think that's a good deal. Sweet. So thank you guys a ton for inviting me into Merle here.

Justin Brown  52:33

 Yeah, 

Kris Hampton  52:34

I'm stoked to have gotten to hang out with you guys and chat about skincare and absolutely just to hang out in general been great to meet you. And you know all you guys know where you can find us on the interwebs you can find us on the Facebook's the Instagrams the Pinterest it's even though we still don't know what the hell Pinterest is for. We're there but you will not find us on the Twitters because we don't tweet we scream like eagles.