What When How to Train | Chattanooga Bouldering with Juliet Hammer

Looking for a winter bouldering destination with seemingly endless amounts of rock, hosting classic problems of every grade, all within driving distance of one of the coolest cities in the Southeast? Look no further than Chattanooga.

Juliet Hammer first climbed in the Chattanooga area as a college student at the University of Virginia and has recently returned to the area after living in Colorado for a number of years. She’s since then racked up an impressive tick-list of southeastern sends, and even walked away with the win at last year’s Triple Crown Bouldering Series. Now she’s helping climbers reach their goals as a coach. Hear more from her in this previous episode.

GRIP FOCUS: slopers, edges, pinches

STYLE FOCUS: powerful, compression, steep, tricky mantle topouts

BEST CONDITIONS: December - February

WEATHER CONSIDERATIONS: High humidity can be the dealbreaker. Moisture can condense and cause wet rock even without rain. Sandstone may require days to dry out after rain before climbable.

IMPORTANT TO KNOW: Lots of climbing on private land, some even requiring payment or entry fees — very important to be aware/respectful of access situations.

SPECIAL EQUIPMENT: Extra/thick skin as the sandstone can feel like sandpaper. Natural hair brushes so as not to damage softer sandstone.

SPECIAL SKILLS NEEDED AT CERTAIN GRADE LEVEL: More powerful, dynamic, bigger moves at higher (V8+) grades.

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MUST DO’S:

• V0-V3:

  • Incredarete, V1 - Stone Fort

  • Swingers, V3/4 - Stone Fort (or Little Rock City)

• V4-V7:

  • Tristar, V4 - Stone Fort

  • Golden Showers, V5 - Rocktown

  • The Wave, V6 - Stone Fort

  • Tennessee Thong, V7 - Stone Fort

• V8-V10:

  • River Dance, V9 - Dayton

  • The Orb, V8 - Rocktown

• V11 and up:

  • God Module, V11 - Horse Pens 40

PERSONAL FAVORITES:

• Juliet: The Last Samurai, V11/12 - Upper Middle Creek — see Juliet’s video below.

• Kris: Brown Eye Left, V5 - Rocktown

OVERLOOKED CLASSICS:

• Juliet’s picks:

  • Fish Market, V3 - Stone Fort

  • Blue, V6 - Rocktown

  • The Mechanic, V7 - Stone Fort

  • Simply Irresistible, V8 - Stone Fort

  • New Sensations, V10 - Stone Fort

• Kris’s picks:

  • Gritstone Arete, V3 - Rocktown

  • Black Carpet, V4 - Stone Fort

  • Country Redneck Bitch, V5 - Stone Fort

  • Six Feet Under, V5 - Stone Fort — check out Andrew Kornylak’s video.

BEST CRAG FOR A GROUP OF VARYING GRADE LEVELS: Stone Fort

BEST REST DAY ACTIVITY:

• Juliet:

  • Hunker down at a coffee shop, especially in the North Shore area.

• Kris:

  • North Shore area of town.

  • Tennessee Aquarium

  • Explore other bouldering areas.

  • Visit historic Civil War battlefields.

  • Antique shopping.

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GUIDEBOOK: Stone Fort, Rocktown (out of print) Horse Pens 40, and Chattbloc which covers other local areas.

GEARSHOP: Rock/Creek

CLIMBING GYM:

• Synergy Climbing and Ninja

• Crux Conditioning (training facility owned/operated by Power Company coach, Paul Corsaro)

BEST PLACE TO STAY:

• The Crash Pad hostel

• Chester Frost campground

BEST PLACE TO EAT: Basecamp

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:37

What's up, everybody? I'm your host, Kris Hampton.

Juliet Hammer  00:40

I'm Juliet Hammer.

Kris Hampton  00:41

It's really nice to have another reason to have you on here. The last time we talked was a little bit of a heavier topic. And I'm, I'm really excited to dig into today's topic because you're just coming off of a season crushing southeastern boulders.

Juliet Hammer  01:00

Yeah, thanks for having me back.

Kris Hampton  01:03

I know this was your first winter season back after being away from Chattanooga for a while, right?

Juliet Hammer  01:11

Mmm hmm, yeah. So I grew up in Virginia, and then went to college in Virginia as well. So my previous experience with climbing and Chattanooga was just kind of winter break trips and a couple of Triple Crown competitions. So I never spent a whole season in the southeast.

Kris Hampton  01:32

Yeah, that's, that's fun. What, what was your like, the thing you were looking forward to most going into the winter season?

Juliet Hammer  01:40

Um, I think I mostly was just excited to climb on sandstone, I'd say. I don't, I tried not to have any major specific goals, just because I had no idea how I'd be climbing after six years of living in Colorado and climbing on granite. So I just remember feeling really humbled the last time I climbed in the southeast a number of years ago, so just kind of had low expectations.

Kris Hampton  02:11

The southeast kind of has that effect on people, I think. I can't tell you how many times I've been humbled there.

Juliet Hammer  02:19

Yeah, yeah.

Kris Hampton  02:21

That also sort of brings me to an idea I've been toying with. And I'm just going to mention it here so that it's out in the universe and then we have to do it. We should do an episode on transitioning from granite boulders in the West to sandstone boulders in the southeast, and vice versa. And we could just share your experiences and, you know, what the differences are.

Juliet Hammer  02:47

Yeah, yeah, I'd definitely be psyched to do that. Because I'm actually heading back to Colorado for a trip this summer. So I'll be doing that transition myself. And yeah, it's been, it's been a while since I've been back on granite, so I'm excited.

Kris Hampton  03:04

Awesome. That's perfect, then. We'll, we'll definitely do that. Alright, before we get started here, can you tell everybody where to find you? On the interwebs?

Juliet Hammer  03:13

Yeah, I'm on Instagram at Juliet: J U L I E T underscore Amanda. And then my website is julietamanda.com.

Kris Hampton  03:24

And what do you do at julietamanda.com?

Juliet Hammer  03:27

Yeah, I am a climbing and strength coach. So I work with climbers of all different levels, to create holistic programs to help them reach their goals.

Kris Hampton  03:37

Awesome, and I'm hoping you have some more people reaching out after this episode. Today we're going to be talking the What When How to Train for Chattanooga area boulders. I've always said that if Chattanooga had the weather of Hueco Tanks, or you know, several areas in the Western United States, it might be the world's best bouldering destination. But the weather tends to be a problem for a lot of people so longer trips make more sense there, I think. And it's really fun, I guess, to get a whole season there. I've had one, though it rained most of the season. The rock is just plain incredible and nearly endless. It's, it's everywhere. And most people, I think, will think of "the big three" of Chatt bouldering which is: Stone Fort, used to be called Little Rock City; Rocktown, which is in Georgia; and Horse Pens 40, which is in Alabama. So it's all in this little tri-state zone. But there are a few, quite a few, smaller satellite zones all around the area like Zhan, the Hospital Boulders, Dayton, Dogwood, Pep Boys, a bunch of areas around there. I started going to Chattanooga for crack climbing in the 90s and would spend, similar to you, like a few weekends every winter, two weeks around Christmas. That eventually morphed into bouldering. And now I've spent a fair amount of time down there, but it never seems like enough. Tell me a little more about going to University of Virginia and coming down there to climb.

Juliet Hammer  05:19

Yeah, so I started climbing when I was 10 years old, started as a youth competition climber. I grew up in Northern Virginia. So it was pretty far away from any real, real outdoor rock climbing. And so yeah, I grew up in the gym, kind of went through a teenage burnout phase that I think is fairly common. When, when I was 16 to 18-ish, so kind of through the first year of college, I wasn't climbing. And then over, over the summer between my first and second year in school, I started climbing again. And that's when I started climbing outside, which was a really special transition for me because, to me, once I started climbing outside, there was this big... I just felt like everything clicked and everything made a lot more sense. And just, yeah, felt like a good fit for me and a way to motivate and have a passion for climbing. So when I started climbing again in college, I joined the the university climbing team. And the first trip I ever took to the southeast was for the Stone Fort Triple Crown competition, which I will say, yeah, I've done a number of outdoor competitions and had them be my first time ever climbing in an outdoor area, and it's actually really fun. Because there's just pads everywhere, you're just trying to get as many climbs as you can, it's always a good, good vibes, good environment, good community. So yeah, I had a great experience the first time I climbed in the southeast.

Kris Hampton  07:08

That's awesome. I think the first time I ever climbed in Horse Pens was for a Triple Crown. And the first time I ever climbed at Hound Ears was a Triple Crown. First time I climbed at Boone, period, I think, was for Triple Crown. So that's really cool. The question everybody wants to know is: how did you do in that first Stone Fort comp?

Juliet Hammer  07:27

Oh, that's kind of a funny story. But yeah, so I competed in the Advanced category, which for the women, I think was like V5-6? And yeah, I had a really good day, had a lot of fun, I was really proud of myself. And was initially disappointed - a little disappointed - when I didn't place, but then later found out that the girl who won the category actually cheated. Yeah, so it bumped me up into third. So I got third in the Advanced category.

Kris Hampton  07:59

 I remember that year actually. 

Juliet Hammer  08:00

Yeah, yep. So I got, I got a free jacket from it, which was cool. 

Kris Hampton  08:07

And you've done Triple Crowns since then. Do you want to tell us a little about your Triple Crown history? 

Juliet Hammer  08:14

Yeah, so I did a couple more when I was in college. I did the Horse Pens competition that same year. And then I think the next year I did the Hound Ears one. So I'd done each of the competitions once and competed in that Advanced category. And then yeah, coming back after living in Colorado, I kind of figured the Triple Crowns would be a great way to re-familiarize myself with the style, nice way to kind of, yeah, circuit around, get a lot of volume. So I did the Triple Crowns this year. And yeah, I was really stoked to win the Open category overall. 

Kris Hampton  08:58

Yeah. Awesome. Congrats. I had a lot of fun watching the results every time they, they came out and... psyched for you.

Juliet Hammer  09:08

Thanks. Yeah, it felt, felt really good, like things had come full circle to, to come back. And it was also something I never imagined doing when I was in college and competing in that Advanced category. So it was, it was, yeah, definitely a really cool experience.

Kris Hampton  09:24

Yeah. And then you, you moved back to Chatt, you said. So how long have you been there now?

Juliet Hammer  09:30

Just over a year now actually. 

Kris Hampton  09:33

Nice. It's good to, good to have that, like, ability to cherry pick the good days outside. 

Juliet Hammer  09:40

For sure.

Kris Hampton  09:42

Let's talk a little about the "What" of the area. What would you say characterizes the climbing there, for folks who have not been?

Juliet Hammer  09:52

Sure, yeah. So a big characteristic I would say of sandstone is that it creates good comfortable holds, but not a lot of things kind of in-between those holds, so not a lot of intermediates, not a lot of, not a lot of features in-between. So, a lot of times, it creates just big powerful moves. Or even if you're on a slab, still kind of big, delicate type climbing. And then there's... while there's like a big variety of angles, I'd say the South is most known for being the "Steep South" - having, yeah, these steeper, thuggy, powerful type climbs.

Kris Hampton  10:42

Yeah. And I think, you know, the fact that the holds do seem to get a little more spaced out lends itself to this learning how to use friction to your advantage, either, whether it's smearing and stepping on things that don't look like something you want to step on, or being able to use really horrible slopey intermediates, because the friction is available, right? And then the other thing I think that the South is really known for is that the top-outs get really real. Mantles that actually require pushing and might not have what a lot of gym, gym climbers will even consider as holds.

Juliet Hammer  11:28

Mmm hmm. Yeah, definitely a lot of mantel cruxes there. Yeah, there are definitely times where the entirety of the grade comes from the mantel. So yeah, it's a, it's a good place to practice those skills.

Kris Hampton  11:44

Yeah, I remember you had posted a video, I think, of "Hustle and Flow". 

Juliet Hammer  11:53

Oh, yeah. Right. 

Kris Hampton  11:54

And I messaged you, and just told you very briefly that I had actually punched myself in the jaw on that top-out. It was one of my first V10's, maybe my second or third. And I was just cruising. And you do - or at least the way that I did it was - kind of a big cross to a big slopey hold, and then you unwind into the mantle. And when I was unwinding, I was like being so, like, casual about it, that I wasn't paying close attention to what I was doing. And when I unwinded, as I came across my body, I hit myself in the jaw really hard, and was like seeing stars and spinning and my feet were just dangling while I'm, you know, half of my body's beach-whaled over the top. And I finally got it back together and topped it out, but almost knocked myself off the boulder.

Juliet Hammer  12:49

Wow, that's impressive.

Kris Hampton  12:51

Any, any great top-out stories from your time there?

Juliet Hammer  12:55

Oh, I mean, that boulder specifically, "Hustle and Flow", it was kind of a situation where I wanted to practice the top-out so that I knew I could do it when I got there, but never did the m-, never actually did the mantle until it was the send go because I got the advice of "When you get there, you're gonna really want to do it. And that's what will make the difference." And that was very true.

Kris Hampton  13:23

Yeah, that's, that's a dangerous thing to do. But it does pay off now and then. You made some notes here in our shared document that I think is really important to mention, that if, especially if you're coming from the west where there's tons of public land, the South is very different.

Juliet Hammer  13:43

Yeah, so the South is a ton of private property. There's not like... yeah, a lot of the climbing is not on national forest land or national... like, yeah, land bureau land.

Kris Hampton  13:59

Like BLM land.

Juliet Hammer  14:01

Yeah, and the Southeastern Climbers Coalition that is down there works tirelessly with landowners, property managers, to make sure that we still have access to some of the, these areas. So if you're down there, if you're taking a trip there, definitely consider donating to the SCC or going to their events, those types of things. You mentioned that this past season an area lost access?

Juliet Hammer  14:01

Yeah, exactly. It's a lot of private property. So it kind of seems like that goes two different ways. One is that the land owners will have you pay to climb on the land or access it. It unfortunately can kind of create a little bit of like a gatekeeping culture where it's just like, yeah, you have to tread pretty lightly, can't be necessarily spraying about, about these areas. Just because it's really easy to lose access.

Juliet Hammer  15:19

Yeah. So it's kind of in the works, I'd say, with the SCC, fortunately. But yeah, it was, it's this climbing area that is on, I guess, I don't know if it's quite private yet, but it's on land that's currently being developed for housing. And so previously, before they started building houses, I think it was like a major hike to get to the boulders, kind of probably a bunch of bushwhacking. But then as these houses started being developed, a road was built, and it became a lot easier to then access the boulders. And like I said, the SCC has been working with the property managers, and it was still allowed to go to these boulders, drive up the road, all of that, but it just kind of gained popularity pretty quickly and got pretty crowded pretty quickly. And then I think some, sounds like some folks were maybe just not being as respectful as needed, and kind of causing some, some disruptions. Like just parking in the middle of the road, it sounded like. Yeah, and so, of course, the people who are living there now got upset. And so the access was temporarily revoked. But yeah, the SCC is working with them. I know there's a day, actually maybe next week, where the boulders will be open for everyone. And so yeah, we'll just kind of have to see the future of, of access at that crag.

Kris Hampton  17:01

Yeah, especially with the road going in while they're developing. And, you know, it's got to create that mentality of, you know, get it while I can. So I'm sure that could have major strain on the area. And, you know, it used to be like in the 90s, when I was learning to climb, you would see this noted in the magazines a lot, where writers would tell a story about some scary encounter with a landowner or something, and, and that clued you in to the sensitivity of the access. But I think as bouldering has gotten more and more popular, and it's easier to find directions to get to a place, and guidebooks to know what the problems are, that message has gotten lost a little bit - it's still in the guide books, but we just tend to flip to what we want to climb on, right? So, you know, I think it's important that we mention those things, and I'll have links to the SCC in the show notes and in the blog post for this episode. So again, if you're climbing down there, definitely consider donating and finding out what the access situations are to any of these sensitive areas. We have a question in our document that's really pertinent to areas like Hueco Tanks where you might need knee pads or something like that, and the question was: is there any special equipment needed for the area's climbing style? One thing that I think you need for southern bouldering is extra skin, if you can somehow bring that. The rock is like climbing on 80 grit sandpaper. It's fantastic for friction, but on slopers you're going to be sliding and your tips are going to end up bright pink, nearly guaranteed.

Juliet Hammer  18:51

Yeah, yeah, it's like, it's a blessing and a curse, I guess, where you don't get a lot of kind of the sharp crystals or anything like that, where it can kind of wear on your skin on like one certain spot. So it does wear your skin evenly, which is nice in some ways, but in other ways, it's, it's, it wears it all. So yeah, yeah, that's good advice.

Kris Hampton  19:17

Yeah, and I think one thing that may not be as pertinent today as it used to be, is the brush type that you carry when you come to these areas. You know, if you're used to granite or limestone, nylon brushes can be really valuable to get into those little cracks and crevices between crystals or in pockets. But they're a little harsh for a lot of the sandstone in the southeast. So natural hair brushes are certainly the better choice for down south.

Juliet Hammer  19:50

Yeah, and I actually remember last year the SCC did make a post about about that as well. Yeah, it does kind of just wear down the holds and, and the nylon brushes will wear down the holds and yeah, just wear them a lot quicker. So yeah, when possible, definitely use natural hair brushes.

Kris Hampton  20:11

Where do you stand on the slapping slopers with t-shirts tactic? 

Juliet Hammer  20:21

I guess I haven't thought about it very much, but it seems fine to me.

Kris Hampton  20:24

Is it a valuable tactic do you think? Does it, is it better than brushing?

Juliet Hammer  20:30

I bet it feels really good. I personally, I personally, I haven't really done that. But...

Kris Hampton  20:38

I haven't either. I just remember it from videos, years and years ago, all these shirtless dudes slapping the boulders with their t-shirts.

Juliet Hammer  20:46

Yeah, it seems like it would just be like a good way to like exert your energy. Especially if you're frustrated.

Kris Hampton  20:54

Yeah, I, it's not a thing that I do. But, you know, if it's a way to get your energy in the right place, go for it. Let's talk... when I think, you know, in the West, you can climb pretty much year round if you can find shade, or you can go up to a higher elevation. That's a little tougher in the southeast. And they're pretty distinct seasons, right? What would you say is the prime season for the southeast?

Juliet Hammer  21:26

Yeah, I would say that the prime, prime is probably November through January, sometimes through part of February. But it also varies from year to year. So it's, it can be kind of tough to say exactly. But yeah, I'd say the prime season is between November and January. And then you kind of get these shoulder seasons on either end. So depending on the year, you can have a really cool fall and get a lot more climbing in than maybe in other years. Or same on the other end - sometimes it just stays cooler for the spring and you get a really good spring season. But sometimes you don't. Sometimes it's really rainy, rainy fall or rainy spring, or it just gets hot really quickly. So yeah, safest bet would be November through January.

Kris Hampton  22:16

And if you're, if you're a person who got two weeks off work, and you're like, "I need to, I need to maximize my time. I need it to be the best possible two week window." And they're totally gonna blame it on you if they get rain, which two weeks would you say are the best? What month?

Juliet Hammer  22:36

Well see, here's the thing. This past, this past year, everyone was in town for New Year's, because that's when everyone had, I guess - the two week period between Christmas and New Year's. And unfortunately, it was like the worst two week window of the season. And everyone ended up in the gym on New Year's Eve, which was just kind of fun. It was fun, but also everyone was like very bummed. So... 

Kris Hampton  23:03

Grumbly. 

Juliet Hammer  23:05

Yeah, sometimes, yeah, it's really, it's really hard to say. But yeah, I guess like, late-December / early-January would seem like it would be the best, but there's really no guarantees.

Kris Hampton  23:22

Yeah, I agree with that completely. I just wanted to put you on the spot there. Yeah, I spent a lot of Christmas / New Year's two week periods in the southeast for many, many years when I lived in Cincinnati. And by and large, I would say we got good weather most of the time. What are the things, if you're looking at the weather, if you're the usual climber, constantly checking your weather app and looking at, you know, the wind and the humidity and all of the other things that might come into whether you have a good day bouldering or not - as if you can change those things - what are the things that are most important to look at in the southeast?

Juliet Hammer  24:06

Yeah, so I would definitely say the humidity is much more the bigger factor than the temperature. Because you can have really cold temps, but then if it's humid, it makes no difference. Or it can be a warmer day, where maybe normally you would think it'd be too warm, but if the humidity is low, things can still be really sticky. So I guess the exact percentage... I am not, I haven't gotten that picky. But yeah, I think in the South, it's probably I guess, yeah, I don't want to speak incorrectly... 

Kris Hampton  24:44

If you're, if you're coming from the west, it's going to look crazy huge no matter what. You can't get away from that.

Juliet Hammer  24:53

I think the rule of thumb is like if the humidity and the temperature add up to less than 100, you're good. That is kind of what I've heard.

Kris Hampton  25:05

Alright, I like it. Keep that in mind. Keep your calculators handy, figure that stuff out. Yeah, I agree the humidity definitely makes the difference down there. You're going to slide more, you're going to lose more skin, it's going to feel really frustrating. Moves you could do easily a few days before, you might not be able to do at all just because the humidity is so much higher. There's also the, you know, the situation where it rains and it's going to be more humid, even though it's drying out and, you know, the sun comes out, the air gets more humid as the water is evaporating, whatever. There can be a lot of situations where you get condensation on the undersides of the steep stuff. And then there is the rain itself to contend with. Sandstone is more porous so the question of "How soon can we climb on it?" is a tough one, I think.

Juliet Hammer  26:12

Yeah, for sure. And it's something I'm still learning as a local. I guess the, the one advantage we have in the sandstone here in the south versus areas like Joe's, or like Roy, New Mexico; is that there is a lot more quartz in our sandstone here so it is a bit harder. It's not quite as soft as some of the sandstone out west. But I, generally, like if it's wet, I don't want to mess with it, is kind of my attitude.

Kris Hampton  26:43

Yeah. And I think if you're in doubt, you know if it's been a couple days since it rained, but it's still fairly humid, there are plenty of climbs that don't have incuts, as well. They're just big bulbous slopers that, at least to common sense, seem a little safer than grabbing little incut crimps that could totally ruin a boulder if it breaks off. 

Juliet Hammer  27:10

For sure, for sure. 

Kris Hampton  27:12

So there are ways to hedge your bets, I think.

Juliet Hammer  27:16

Yeah. And again, it can kind of just depend. And if, if you're able to, yeah, get advice from the locals, I would say that's probably the safest thing to do. Because there are some times where it does rain, but just the way that the temperatures go, like if it gets really cold, everything can be totally dry and totally fine because everything just kind of... the rock isn't sweating. But it can go the opposite direction, where like maybe it doesn't rain at all, but the temps kind of shoot up really quickly and then everything's sweating.

Kris Hampton  27:56

You get all that condensation. Yeah, that's good beta: talk to a local, especially if you're coming from the west where, you know, there's almost no humidity and things dry out really, really fast. It can be a wildly different thing in the southeast where it might stay damp and wet for days afterward. And you know, they're in these, a lot of the boulders are in these forests that kind of hold the wetness inside of them so it can be tricky. Talk to the locals - good beta. Alright, what everybody wants to know here is, let's jump into the How: how do we train for, what are the things we need to know to make sure that we have a good trip to Southeast boulders? One of the things I find really interesting in a lot of areas is that as you build up and hit a certain level, there are going to be things that become different for you and that are required for you to learn. Do you think there are things in the levels from, say, V0 to V7 that changed dramatically between grades? Or do you think it's a steady buildup?

Juliet Hammer  29:11

Yeah, I think in the southeast at least, just the way that sandstone can kind of, the climbs that sandstone creates, is that there is just a really large concentration of climbs between V0 and 7. I'd say it's like the best, the best place to circuit at those grades. There's just so many climbs, which is awesome. And was pretty much like the opposite experience I had in Colorado, at least, where there's like virtually nothing to warm up on, or yeah, like you're warming up on V7 kind of thing. So yeah, that is one really nice thing about sandstone is there's just a lot of available climbs. So in that way you're able to kind of pick and choose a little bit more. Pick and choose which style of of climb you want to get on or if one doesn't quite fit you, there's always another.

Kris Hampton  30:10

And very often, like, right there. You can turn around and see 10 other classic boulders.

Juliet Hammer  30:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the areas are super, super concentrated. Yeah, you can just romp around all day and get on a ton of different climbs.

Kris Hampton  30:25

Mm hmm. Yeah, I think that's one of the coolest things about those areas. I remember the first time I went to Hueco, people were like, "It's so concentrated here. It's so dense, you know, so many boulders," and I'm like, "You've never climbed in the southeast, have you? Because this seems really spread out in comparison." You know, it's, you can literally, like at somewhere like Stone Fort, you can stand in a spot and spin in a circle and see 25 great boulders.

Juliet Hammer  30:54

Yep. Totally. Yeah. And then you walk 10 feet, and do the same thing. 360 and there's another 25 boulders. 

Kris Hampton  31:01

Yeah, exactly. It's so cool. Yeah. What do you think makes the difference as climbs get harder in the Southeast?

Juliet Hammer  31:10

Yeah. So kind of as you start getting beyond that V7 grade, one: there's definitely just fewer climbs as you start getting into those harder grades, so just fewer to choose from, and then kind of like what I mentioned before is the rock just doesn't lend itself to a lot of intermediates, a lot of hold options. So it's, in a lot of cases that maybe the holds get further apart. Or, of course, the holds do get worse. But I'd say the bigger difference is just that it can kind of start to get a little bit what I call "morpho", where it just becomes a little bit more body-size dependent sometimes.

Kris Hampton  31:58

And you what is your height and span, if you don't mind telling us? 

Juliet Hammer  32:03

Yeah, so I'm 5' even. And then my span is 5'2".

Kris Hampton  32:08

Okay. And are there boulders that you have decided you just will never do?

Juliet Hammer  32:18

Ah, um, I try not to have that attitude of never doing something because surely it is possible, maybe.

Kris Hampton  32:31

I was hoping you were gonna say this because I love this attitude. And I think it's one of the things that has made you successful, is this attitude of, "I'm not going to discount this just because my size doesn't fit what would be easiest on this boulder."

Juliet Hammer  32:47

Right. Yeah, so there's definitely V7's that I might not do, but like climb V13 elsewhere, but that's fine. Or, yeah, climbs that I just know are going to be harder for me and that's okay, too. But yeah, I think, I think if anything, what I've learned from leaving the southeast and then coming back is that there are a lot more possibilities than maybe I would originally think. Because I know for myself, when I left the southeast I would say you know, I had climbed, I would say I was a solid V7 climber. I had climbed a handful of 8's and maybe a couple of 9's but definitely was like the most well-versed in V7. Never thought I'd do a Southeastern double digit, to me that was just like way out of reach. And then coming back, my one goal was like, "Okay, that'd be cool to do a southern V10 this season, this year," and then I surprised myself and did many more.

Kris Hampton  33:58

Yeah, that's... what do you think made the difference?

Juliet Hammer  34:02

Um, I think that... yeah, one: I was, I was stronger for sure coming back but I also just was a more experienced climber, was more well-versed in different kinds of movements. And then I think what made a really big difference too was... Yeah, I actually moved here about a year ago, so I moved here in the summer, which is not the most ideal, it's really hot, but I spent all summer in the gym. And I climb at Synergy Climbing and Ninja here in town and I found that the setting actually did a very, very good job of preparing me for what I encountered outside. So yeah, definitely moves that are more powerful, dynamic. You kind of have to throw yourself around quite a bit more but - which was really uncomfortable for me at the start - but yeah, prepared me well for the outdoor climbing here. 

Kris Hampton  35:03

Yeah, I think that, I think that the like new style of gym setting with these, you know, big macro holds, big bulbous things and not tons of tiny little crimps like there used to be in gyms, you know; we hear folks constantly complaining that that doesn't prepare you for outside climbing but it does actually prepare you pretty well for southeastern climbing, getting comfortable on those slopey holds where it's just friction and position dependent. And then, like you said, being able to just fling yourself around is really valuable out there.

Juliet Hammer  35:42

Yeah, it's definitely very gymnastic type climbing here.

Kris Hampton  35:46

And I would say that's, you know, there's some really good beta hidden in what you said there, in that, don't get discouraged if it seems hard to make that jump into the double digit boulders, especially if you're a shorter climber, or you know, just harder boulders in general - doesn't matter if it's double digit, the jump from V5 to V7 can feel massive when you're at that spot. I think if you have the opportunity to do so, spend some time on slopers indoors, paying particular attention to the positions you're using. And if you can get good at like compression style heel-hooking and squeezing, you're going to be set up really well for climbing in the southeast.

Juliet Hammer  36:30

Yeah, yeah. And also kind of circling back to some of the, some of what you said earlier with that kind of friction, using friction and yeah, learning how to use non-footholds, basically. Honestly, like, the South has some of the worst footholds I've ever tried to use, especially on the kind of slab climbing, which is another thing I think is pretty cool and unique about the South, is just how how varied the terrain can be. Like I said, I know there's kind of this association with the South being this steep south, and of course, that is kind of like the quintessential style we think of, but I know, at least from living in Colorado, it's like you pretty much get the same thing all over, right? It's like overhanging tension crimping, that's pretty much what you get no matter what area you go to. Whereas here, it's... you can do a full day of just slab climbing because there's tons of slabs and you can challenge yourself in that way. And then the next day go and only get on steep climbing. So I think that's another really nice thing about about the South.

Kris Hampton  37:44

Yeah, totally. And you can't walk through Stone Fort without looking at "Space" and wishing you could climb that thing. I've tried it so many times, and.... never.

Juliet Hammer  37:59

Yeah. It freaks me out a little bit, given that the crux is at the very top of the boulder.

Kris Hampton  38:06

Totally. It's, it's way easier to just jump off than it is to commit to doing those moves up there. It feels tall, it's in this funny little corridor, it's definitely unnerving.

Juliet Hammer  38:18

Yeah, yeah. And actually in that corridor, that is where I did like one of the slab-only days. There's like, I don't know, I was falling all over V4 that day. There's a lot of really hard slab climbing.

Kris Hampton  38:32

Yeah. And it's, it's so fun to learn that style, I think. And you really don't get that same sort of friction on other rock. So definitely do it if you can, you know, if you're out there and you have the time, it's a really smart thing to do. Do you think there is a best grade in the southeast? If you had to choose a grade, what is the absolute best? 

Juliet Hammer  39:00

I'm leaning towards V7.

Kris Hampton  39:03

That's my pick, too.

Juliet Hammer  39:04

Yeah, it's, it's, there's, yeah, like I said, there's just so many and it's like, it gets to this difficulty where you do have to really like focus in and concentrate and yeah, be smart about your movement. But at the same time, it can feel pretty achievable. 

Kris Hampton  39:25

Yeah, I agree. Let's talk a little bit about like some of the specifics of down there and how we can better prepare for them. We've already mentioned that a lot of the gym styles really lend itself, so you know, don't maybe don't just spend all your time on the Moon board when you're in the gym, actually do some of those bigger macro-hold jumping around to big bulbous things kind of climbing. As well as, you know, lean into the compression style, I think will prepare you. Is there a way to prepare in the gym - and feel totally okay saying "I don't think so.", because that's probably my answer - for the mantles?

Juliet Hammer  40:11

Oh, goodness. Yeah, those are gonna definitely be like, very specific and learned. And yeah, getting on the rock is going to be the best way to do that. But yeah, if you, if you were to prepare yourself, or tried to prepare yourself for it, I mean, it's definitely, again, just given how full-body the climbing is overall here and how full-bodied mantles are, just, yeah, doing some strength training, and just preparing your body to be as strong as as it can be going into climbing here.

Kris Hampton  40:50

Yeah, I agree. I think that's the, the best way to prepare for those, outside of actually climbing on the rock. I think once you're there, if you can, you know, if you find yourself being stumped at a lot of the mantles, then maybe just stepping the level down for a day or two and getting used to what you can get away with when you're actually mantling over the top of some of these things is a really smart way to go.

Juliet Hammer  41:17

Yeah, and the nice thing, too, is there's a lot of, there are a lot of practice boulders that you can do. One specifically that I'm thinking of is "Fish Market". 

Kris Hampton  41:28

And, man - such a hard mantle. 

Juliet Hammer  41:31

Yeah. And there's also like a slightly easier one to the right, I can't remember exactly what it's called but it's like a V1 or V2 mantle. And then "Fish Market" is a V3 mantle. And they're both super close to the ground so it's like you only need one pad. And I would say that's like a perfect way to practice.

Kris Hampton  41:49

It hurt my soul a little bit when you said "Fish Market" is a V3 mantle.

Juliet Hammer  41:54

Yeah. It hurts everyone's soul.

Kris Hampton  41:59

Yeah, there's also "Swingers", I think, is a good way to learn what you can get away with. There's a bunch of them, there's a bunch of them all around those areas. Do you have a preferred area of the big three?

Juliet Hammer  42:13

Ummm, they're all, they're all different in their own way, which is really cool. I think, this season, I probably spent the most time at Stone Fort. So that's kind of what, where I would kind of trend towards and choose. But I definitely would like to spend more time at the other two.

Kris Hampton  42:41

Yeah, I'm sort of the same. I've spent way more time at Stone Fort than all of the others. Let's, let's take a quick commercial break and then we'll come back. I want to talk a little bit about the differences in those three areas, you know, what you see the differences as and then we'll talk some more fun stuff like the must-do boulders, what your favorites are, the overlooked classics, that kind of thing. 

Kris Hampton  43:07

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Kris Hampton  43:45

Alright, we're back. And I want to know, you said that the big three are pretty different, and I agree. And I've always thought this is one of the coolest things about going to Chattanooga is you can, you can have a pretty different style on really similar rock at the three areas, three big areas. So what are the differences in your mind between Horse Pens, Rocktown, and Stone Fort (Little Rock City)?

Juliet Hammer  44:17

Yeah, so for Horse Pens, definitely the thing that sticks out to me is a lot of - not all of them, but a lot of the boulders - tend to be shorter. And so to me, a lot of those climbs just pack like a really strong punch where it's like two moves and then you're to the mantel or, yeah, just a handful of moves and then you're on top of the boulder. So I definitely consider those to be maybe some of the more intense, or the more intense area, is the association I have in my head.

Kris Hampton  44:53

I hadn't even thought about that, but you're totally right. Horse Pens is definitely the shorter of the three.

Juliet Hammer  44:59

Yeah, which is is nice because it's like, you know, a little playground. Very doable with one or two pads and you can run around and get a lot done.

Kris Hampton  45:10

Totally. It, for me, - and tell me if you agree - Horse Pens is also like the, the more big giant sloper dependent of the three. You know, we see the photos of like "Centipede" and "Millipede" and it's really easy to be fooled about an area by the main photos you see, and then you get there and you're like, "Oh, it's not all like this, you know, but I thought it was." I think Horse Pens really is like that.

Juliet Hammer  45:46

Yeah, I mean, you definitely get a handful of climbs that have crimps on them, but yeah, the predominant, the predominant style there definitely seems to be slappin' slopers, bustin' egos, that kind of thing. I would say, I guess kind of along those lines, Horse Pens probably has the stoutest grading of the three, too - the most sandbagged. 

Kris Hampton  46:08

It does seem that way. 

Juliet Hammer  46:09

Like, add two V grades to everything there.

Kris Hampton  46:12

Yeah. And the locals are really good at sandbagging you. They will, they can just do things in their gym shoes that seem impossible at first.

Juliet Hammer  46:22

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, the locals who regularly circuit there will definitely have you fooled on the difficulty of things.

Kris Hampton  46:30

Yeah, totally. And what about Rocktown? What's the difference there?

Juliet Hammer  46:36

Yeah, so Rocktown, I almost think of as maybe a middle ground between Horse Pens and, and Stone Fort, I guess, I guess.. Can I jump to the Stone Fort and then come back? 

Juliet Hammer  46:43

So Stone Fort, I almost associate more with more vertical type climbing, a little bit less of that really, really steep. It's like, you get the, you get the slab, you get vert, you get slightly off-vert; there are, you know, a handful of pretty steep climbs there, but I'd say the majority is just in this vert / off-vert type of angle. So you do still get some of the slopers and the big full-body climbing, but I'd say there's also a lot more kind of crimp lines there. And it can get a little more technical with the footwork. And that's kind of what pops into my head when I think of Stone Fort.

Kris Hampton  46:43

Yeah, do it. Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  47:38

Yeah, the first time I went to Stone Fort, I was a trad climber way back in the day, and it wasn't open for climbing yet. And you had to park on the highway up by the water tower and hike in the back and you came in the Dragon Lady corridor, which is one of the coolest little zones of climbing I've ever experienced, you know, just this little corridor with classics on both sides, there's so many great boulders there. And I was like, "Well, this is really cool. But what's everybody making the big deal for?" because I was told you couldn't leave the corridor because the golfers might see you. I was like, "This place is tiny. Why is it so, why do people think it's so cool?" And it wasn't until a Triple Crown years later that I came back and was like, "Oh. It's expansive."

Juliet Hammer  48:34

Mmm hmm, yeah, yeah. And yeah, kind of in that same V0 to 7 range is just so many rock climbs. 

Kris Hampton  48:44

So good. And Rocktown is a little more spread out.

Juliet Hammer  48:49

Yeah, it is. And I would say angle-wise, it does start to get, I would say kind of the majority of the climbs start to get into more of a steeper terrain. Yeah, I'm thinking like "Sherman Photo Roof" and "Nose Candy". Those are kind of two of the very classic climbs and those, those get steeper. Yeah, the rock is, it's just featured a little bit differently, I almost think there are more kind of crimpy type climbs there.

Kris Hampton  49:20

Yeah, seems like there's this patina at Rocktown that creates these like iron incuts a little more often. But yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it's kind of a blend of the two.

Juliet Hammer  49:34

Yeah, yeah. So each area definitely has its own style and people enjoy it for different reasons. But yeah, they're all, they're awesome.

Kris Hampton  49:45

Yeah, totally. Let's talk some of the must-do's. These are the boulders that, at their grade, are kind of the archetypal style for the area that you think really say "Welcome to the Southeast." V0 to V3:

Juliet Hammer  50:06

Yeah, so first I'll say that this was very difficult to pick...

Kris Hampton  50:10

It's so hard. 

Juliet Hammer  50:12

...yeah, only one. There's, because, because each of these... so I, with these, I chose that kind of "steep south" style: thuggy, gymnastic type climbing. But I could also choose slab climbs at each of these grades that would, you know, similarly be, you know, still the southern style. But I haven't done many of the slab climbs, because that is not my forte, so we went with the steep.

Kris Hampton  50:45

And you can give some honorable mentions here. So, let's, let's start with V0 to V3, and you can come up with some off the top honorable mentions.

Juliet Hammer  50:53

Okay, yeah. So yeah, I chose "Swingers" which is at Stone Fort. It's a V3/4. 

Kris Hampton  51:01

Yeah, I was gonna say it used to be called 4, I think.

Juliet Hammer  51:04

Yeah, yeah. I think maybe the Triple Crown book called it V3 or something. But I think it kind of can go either way. But yeah, it starts just in a super steep roof. You kind of do some big pulls between edges, kind of have to coordinate the body tension, and it's called "Swingers" because at one point you have to cut feet. Your feet are kind of sucked in under you in the start hold, you get this like pretty bomber heel-toe cam. But yeah, there's not a lot of feet in between. It's really hard to like, try and keep that tension or break it up in any way other than to just do a big rip which is fun and, yeah, very satisfying. And then, and then you just keep climbing up, and then you get to a kind of techie mantle.

Kris Hampton  51:54

Yeah, very, very southern mantle. It's nice because it's easy to pad. It's, you know, you're, you're not very high off the ground when you're doing the mantle. Somebody can be right on you when you think you're sliding off. So I think that's a really great call. I love that one. 

Juliet Hammer  52:13

Yeah, yeah, very, very fun.

Kris Hampton  52:17

My pick for V0 to V3 is also at Stone Fort, and I'm going with "Incredarete", which is in that front little warm up zone, right next to like "Main Event" and just around the corner from "The Wave". It's like V0 or V1, I'm not sure which. But the thing I really like about it is that it's, for a V0 or 1, it's really technical. You're not going to get up if you're just trying to pull down on all the holds. It requires some shifting of your weight around the corner and some, some interesting positioning, and then it's just tall enough to be a little spicy and get you ready for the day. So I think I climb that one, probably five or six times every day that I'm there.

Juliet Hammer  53:04

Yeah, yeah, that is, that kind of a... I have a friend who's like, "Are you a front girl or a back girl?" Which means like, do you like to start in the front area or do you like to start in the back? And I think a lot of people are front, front people for that, that first warm up area where you do get a ton of V0 to 3 in different styles. And, yeah.

Kris Hampton  53:32

Yep. I love it. V4 to V7: This is, this is where it got really hard for me because there's so many amazing boulders in these grades.

Juliet Hammer  53:43

Yeah. And I mostly chose the one I chose just trying to get around to a bunch of the different areas in the southeast. But yeah, I chose "Golden Showers", which is a V5 at Rocktown. And yeah, it's just a kind of compression boulder. It's known to be a shorty nemesis. It's kind of one of those where it has some big spans, but it's just really fun, really fun thuggy climbing. And it does have a bit of a mantel at the end. Not, nothing, nothing quite as technical as some of the others, but still a little spicy. 

Kris Hampton  54:20

Yeah, it's just tall enough that it feels a little heady up there. And you know, the holds aren't jugs, necessarily, and you're powered down a little bit when you get there so... And it's on just an incredible boulder that just stands by itself right next to a creek in the middle of this little valley. So, so good. 

Juliet Hammer  54:42

In the forest, yeah, it's so pretty. It's like one of the most aesthetic boulders, I think.

Kris Hampton  54:48

Gorgeous. Give me some, because I know there are lots of them, give me some honorable mentions in the V4 to V7 category.

Juliet Hammer  54:59

Honorable mentions...

Kris Hampton  55:02

That could be winners on their own.

Juliet Hammer  55:05

Yeah, I mean, V4 like, for me, what comes to my head is "Tristar", which I think a lot of people kind of hate and actually don't really like very much, but it's just kind of, I don't know if it's, if it's...

Kris Hampton  55:21

I love it.

Juliet Hammer  55:22

It's classic, it's classic. It's just, yeah, it's kind of a more vertical climb. Kind of, it's nice because all those holds are in the same kind of vertical plane. So you do have to do that shifting around. It's more technical in that way where, yeah, you can't just pull down and get through it. You have to, you have to really climb your way through it.

Kris Hampton  55:44

Yeah. And that's that Dragon Lady corridor. And I think it's like, perfectly contrasted with Dragon Lady, also in the corridor, I think at the same grade? Though definitely harder if you're shorter.

Juliet Hammer  55:57

Mm hmm. Yep. Yeah, I think "The Wave" which is a V6 at Stone Fort.

Kris Hampton  56:03

Yeah, that's one of my picks, for sure.

Juliet Hammer  56:05

Yeah, just such a cool feature. So pretty and just climbs really fun.

Kris Hampton  56:11

Yeah. And it's like, it's right there in the front area. So it's, it's really in a spot that will either bash your ego or make you feel like a superhero, because everybody's walking past you watching you climb on this incredible feature, you know? So I think it's a good like, pressurized situation.

Juliet Hammer  56:35

Yeah, I think it's pretty acceptable to struggle on "The Wave". It's hard.

Kris Hampton  56:40

Oh, totally. I agree completely. But in the climber's head, it might not be the same. One of my other picks is "Tennessee Thong". Also probably a tough one for the shorties. It's got a pretty big span on it, though there's some really interesting cool beta that I've seen some shorter climbers use. For me, it's my pick for best V7 at Stone Fort, which is a tough mantle to take up.

Juliet Hammer  57:12

Mmm hmm, yeah, it's, there's a lot of V7's at Stone Fort, so that's definitely, it can be hard to choose one. That, "T-Thong" is, is one that I have not done yet and might take me a few seasons to do but.. it goes, it's just really hard if you're small.

Kris Hampton  57:33

It's just such cool like angles and features. It looks like a Transformer to me - like every time I look at it, I expect it to like rearrange into some creature because of the interesting cool angles that it sits at. And it's just so cool. Yeah, yeah. V8 to 10.

Juliet Hammer  57:55

Yeah, so for this one I chose "River Dance" which is a V9 at Dayton, which is, it's about 40 or 45 minutes from Chattanooga. Really scenic area, giant river, and there's just this gorgeous boulder on the river. You, if you've, if you've looked at pictures of climbing around Chatt, you've probably seen a picture of it. But yeah, it's a pretty... it's kind of like a climb on an arete and yeah, just kind of lends itself to that compression thuggy style.

Kris Hampton  58:35

Yeah, this was one of my first V9, and for sure my favorite V9, I've ever done. But it also did a number on my left knee and hamstring that, that still shows up today, so...

Juliet Hammer  58:52

Hmmmm yep, yep. Definitely high and intense heel hook for the left.

Kris Hampton  58:58

Yep, be ready for that one. And also, you recently put up a video on your Instagram of "Capoeira", which is a lower start, lower into the right start into "River Dance" that goes at V10, which is also mega classic and just so cool. That little spot - you kind of walk down into a little hole that this boulder sticks up out of that sits on the river and it's so cool.

Juliet Hammer  59:27

Yeah, yeah. And I think the beauty of that boulder is that there are a number of different entrances into "River Dance". And yeah, the beauty of it is that "River Dance" is still the crux for all of those boulders. Which is rad. I think it's a pretty stout 9, I definitely thought it was hard. And yeah, just being able to do that last crux, coming in from a number of different entrances, still is, yeah, the hardest part, which is super cool.

Kris Hampton  59:59

Yeah, and "River Dance" has one of those like, slapping-at-a-blank-wall moments that I think show up in the southeast where friction becomes your best friend. And it's not even a sloper you're hitting on the way to this other hold, it's just a flat, blank wall, but everybody stops there.

Juliet Hammer  1:00:23

Yeah, yeah, I think some people will just skip it, if they have enough power, but that was definitely not the option for me.

Kris Hampton  1:00:32

Me neither. My pick is a bit of a cliche, but I'm going with "The Orb" at Rocktown. 

Juliet Hammer  1:00:39

Oh, yeah. 

Kris Hampton  1:00:41

Just because it's such a like, I mean, if you think of Rocktown you think of "The Orb", that's, that's pretty much set in stone - no pun intended - from, from years of seeing photos and hearing people talk about it and how stout it is and arguing about whether certain holds are on or off. And it's just this like centerpiece when you first walk in, it's sitting there right in your face. So that's my pick. It gets a little thin as we get into the V11 and up range in the southeast. And I think you made the good pick here.

Juliet Hammer  1:01:22

Yeah, yeah. So I chose "God Module", which is a V11 at Horse Pens. I have not done this one yet, definitely on the list to try. But yeah, it's a, it's a two-mover, just hard two moves. I guess, technically, like, sometimes the third move is still a thing, too. But yeah, it's, you start on a pretty good crimp, you get a nothing smear foot and then you have to do a big generation to another crimp, and yeah, keep it together.

Kris Hampton  1:01:59

Yeah. And not at all like the Horse Pen style. But I think we've seen so many photos, videos, of it. It's such an obvious feature when you walk up to it. It's the, it's the one you have to pick, I think. 

Juliet Hammer  1:02:14

Mmm hmm, totally. 

Kris Hampton  1:02:16

Alright, favorite boulder. What's your single personal favorite boulder of any grade in the southeast?

Juliet Hammer  1:02:24

Yeah, so this season, the, the most special boulder to me, it's called "The Last Samurai". It's, it's a boulder that was put up by Nicholas Melbourne in an area called Upper Middle Creek, which is just one of the other satellite areas just in town on Signal Mountain. And it was special to me because I got the second ascent of it which, yeah, it was really cool, just given how accessible the climb is. And, and it had been, I think, four years since Nicholas had done it and it hadn't been repeated yet. And the style was pretty much not Southern style, which I liked. It, it was just crimping on an overhang, tension, and definitely kind of more my my style of climbing. So it was really fun to get to work on a climb that had that higher difficulty. It's 11/12. And yeah, just fun to work on something in my style at a, at a more limit difficulty for me.

Kris Hampton  1:03:39

That's awesome. You have video of you on that one?

Juliet Hammer  1:03:43

I do. Yeah, it's on my Instagram.

Kris Hampton  1:03:45

Okay, it's on there. Yeah, I'll link to it in the blog post. A question for you: You just said it had been unrepeated for four years. I know when I was coming up climbing - it might just be me or it might be the ethos of the South - there, there would tend to be these mythologies build up around boulders and I'm curious if that still happens? If it happens to you? Was it the case with this one where there's just this mythology and nobody goes and tries the thing because of this mythology?

Juliet Hammer  1:04:26

Yeah, I think this one, I think it just didn't get a lot of attention so almost maybe the opposite, where there, there...

Kris Hampton  1:04:33

It just went under the radar. 

Juliet Hammer  1:04:35

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think, yeah, many people just haven't tried it. And it's good, it's like a really good boulder so, yeah, hopefully gets a little more attention. I think it'd be cool if it got, got some more ascents. And yeah, I guess this was also one of the situations where the more ascents it gets, the more settled in the grade will be. Which is, which I think will be nice, too.

Kris Hampton  1:05:10

Very cool. My pick for my favorite is, I think the name of it officially is "Brown Eye Left". It's in Rocktown. It's on the Big Bad boulder. I knew it as just, as "Big Bad" eons ago, but I think the actual name is Brown Eye Left" and it's just these really amazing pinches, you know, big wide sandstone pinches. They're exactly like this old set of Technik pinches that used to be in all of the gyms and they just seem really unlikely and improbable up this bulging wall, but it fits, it just works. And it's just a big off-balance sort of throw to this sinker bucket jug that, that will hold water many days after a rain, just in case you're flashing and you know it rained a few days ago, you're probably going to get wet. And and it's a little bit high so it feels a little spicy but the top out is easy. Just such cool climbing. And when I was, when I was first bouldering down there, I was very much not a jumpy dynamic climber and this forced me into jumping off balance. So it just felt like this superhero move to me. So it holds a special place. 

Juliet Hammer  1:06:43

Nice. Yeah, I will have to check that one out.

Kris Hampton  1:06:47

Yeah, check it out. It's very cool. Let's talk some overlooked classics. I think in an area as expansive as the southeast, there are lots and lots of overlooked classics. Let's talk some of the ones that are pretty easy to access but people just walk right past because of other boulders that they think are going to be better.

Juliet Hammer  1:07:10

Yeah. So I had initially written down "Fish Market", which we already talked about, but that boulder is right behind some other classics, like "Jerry's Kids" and "The Big Much". And so I think, I think it gets walked past. But yeah... 

Kris Hampton  1:07:29

And that's low, it's a low boulder. And you're there looking at "Jerry's Kids", which is a taller boulder, and it's really easy to overlook that thing.

Juliet Hammer  1:07:37

For sure, for sure. 

Kris Hampton  1:07:38

But it's such a fun session, everybody getting pumped and falling off the slopers and then frustrated by the mantel and... yeah, so good.

Juliet Hammer  1:07:45

Yeah, yeah, definitely a must do. Um, and then I guess kind of sticking with Stone Fort, one of my favorite climbs is actually called "The Mechanic", which is just, it goes to the right of "The Wave". So I believe it starts the same, in the same hold. But yeah, everyone does "The Wave". And then yeah, "The Mechanic" - I know a lot of people would say that it would be a classic if there wasn't this kind of dab rock behind it. But for me, coming from Colorado, where dab rocks are kind of the norm, I was like, "What are you talking about? This is great." So I really like it. And it's yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of that, that similar... where it's steep, kind of powerful, and then it gets into this transition into kind of a techie slab top out. So I really liked it.

Kris Hampton  1:08:44

Yeah, and I'm really glad you put this one on there. This is one of my favorites there. It's, it's not super tall so it's not super scary when you're flipping around the lip of the roof onto that techy slab. And it's one of those that seems improbable until you find the right combination of positions for yourself. So neat.

Juliet Hammer  1:09:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely pretty beta-intensive. And also yeah, finding the beta that works well for you for that one.

Kris Hampton  1:09:14

I've got one right around the corner from there, almost exactly on the backside of that, or the front side of that boulder, which is "Black Carpet". It's a V4 that is often wet, so I think people end up just walking past it. It's like a normal, like gym-style climbing beginning so it's really easy to get to the top and then it's bafflingly cool. So "Black Carpet", V4, right there on the, as you're walking in. That's, that's one of my picks.

Juliet Hammer  1:09:49

Yeah, that one definitely has like a deceptively bad hold, too. I think when you look at it from the ground, you can see the sequence and you're like, "Okay, I know what I'm gonna do," and then you get there and you're like, "Oh, I can't even pull on this hold."

Kris Hampton  1:10:03

Yeah, totally. More Stone Fort: you've got, you've got several and so do I from there. So let's, let's lean into those.

Juliet Hammer  1:10:10

So some of these I haven't done but have, have heard they're great. One is called "Simply Irresistible". It's kind of tucked away in a corridor, but it's got, it's got that kind of parkour gym style move where you get set up on an arete and then you do a big lunge to like a seam jug and kind of have to simultaneously coordinate your left hand slapping, and I think it's, it's one of those that's like, you can try it a million times and it kind of sucks you in.

Kris Hampton  1:10:49

Where is this one? I'm not familiar.

Juliet Hammer  1:10:51

I don't want to speak wrong. I think it I mean, it's, I think it's towards the back, probably kind of towards "Instinct", maybe. I might be speaking wrong, though.

Kris Hampton  1:11:06

Okay. I have one in the back there as well that gets overlooked, and the name is a little unfortunate, but "Country Redneck Bitch", which is V5. It's the arete right of "Deception". It's on the same boulder as "Deception". It's heady, it's really neat. And, and for the grade, I think it's a really, really cool boulder. Especially to be climbing on that boulder. If you're a V5 climber, if you're any rock climber, you have certainly walked back to "Deception" and stared at that wall. And that arete is a really accessible way to the top of that boulder.

Juliet Hammer  1:11:49

That's cool. Yeah, I'll have to try that.

Kris Hampton  1:11:54

Um, anything else from you at Stone Fort here?

Juliet Hammer  1:11:57

Um, yeah, I, again, this was one that was kind of pointed out to me but I haven't done it. But it's, it's called "New Sensations", it's a V10. It's back in the Biggie Shorty corridor. And it's just another like two-move slab climb. Kind of improbable. I think you do like a big stand-up on a crappy foothold. And again, just kind of like almost that like parkour or like gym style climb where you can just try it over and over and over and over.

Kris Hampton  1:12:36

That's cool. There's so many of those at Stone Fort. Maybe because it's close to town, easy to access, people could try things over and over and over for weeks and weeks. But there's so many of those, like, you have to invent new moves to climb up this section of rock, that it's so cool. Have you heard of "Six Feet Under"? It's a V5?

Juliet Hammer  1:13:01

Um, yeah, I don't recognize that.

Kris Hampton  1:13:04

It's at Stone Fort. It's literally hidden in a hole. It's, you get on top of the cliff band that kind of runs the length of Stone Fort. And then you drop into a hole and there's this little like, weird cave feature that you're in. And there's this really fun V5 that climbs out of the hole. So cool. There's a great video from Andrew Kornylak that I will put in the blog post here of Brian Voges doing "Six Feet Under", so... super neat one.

Juliet Hammer  1:13:42

Is that over by like "Now and Zen" over there, or no?

Kris Hampton  1:13:47

Where's "Now and Zen"?

Juliet Hammer  1:13:49

It's kind of by "The Chattanoogan".

Kris Hampton  1:13:53

It is up in that area. Yep. I couldn't tell you exactly what it's above but it is closer toward the like middle/middle back. So very, very neat. You should definitely go look for it. Cool. Anything else at the other areas overlooked?

Juliet Hammer  1:14:14

Yeah, there's again, there's just so much rock. But yeah, one that I put at Rocktown is called "Blue". It's a V6, it's right just up the hill from "Golden Showers". Again, maybe one that everyone's so focused on "Golden Showers" and "Golden Harvest" that this one gets missed. But yeah, super good. Kind of techy slab/arete climbing.

Kris Hampton  1:14:42

So much fun. Such a neat little feature. Yeah, I love it. My pick, also at Rocktown, is "Gritstone Arete". It's just a, it's a V3, really fun, kind of hidden in a little spot that everyone walks around. It's kind of near "Campus Punks", pretty close to "The Orb" in The Vagina, that area, but kind of just hidden in a little spot where nobody goes. Alright, if you had to pick, let's do two things here: Let's pick a favorite area of the big three, and what's the best area to go to if you're in a group with a bunch of climbers of varying levels - if you're on Christmas trip with all your homies, where do you go?

Juliet Hammer  1:15:37

Okay, so I think my favorite of the three, and I don't know, this could probably change every season or every year, but I, yeah, I always have a really good time when I go to Horse Pens. And I think like the beat down is just, it's just part of the experience. And sometimes I just like to be humbled. So Horse Pens, I would say is my favorite, currently - that could change. And then yeah, going on a trip with a lot of different ability levels, Stone Fort is definitely awesome. It, it's got everything from V0 to there's a V13 there. So lots of, a really good kind of grade spread.

Kris Hampton  1:16:23

Yeah, yeah, I think Stone Fort's definitely the best pick there. I think my favorite is Rocktown. I don't know, I just sort of like the more spread out hiking between the boulders feel of Rocktown. Maybe because I spent so much time at Stone Fort and Horse Pens, where you literally can just spin in a circle and climb new boulders all day, you never have to leave the same little zone. Do you have a favorite satellite area?

Juliet Hammer  1:16:53

Um, that's a good question. Let me think for a second.

Kris Hampton  1:17:01

I'm going Dayton for sure.

Juliet Hammer  1:17:03

Okay, yeah. 

Kris Hampton  1:17:04

I think Dayton's my favorite area in the entire southeast.

Juliet Hammer  1:17:07

Yeah, Dayton's definitely, like it, it's definitely got that feeling where you're kind of getting out of town, really getting into, into nature. Probably most gorgeous scenery. I'd say I also really like Middle Creek, just because of how close it is into town. And then also just kind of the whole like, the wild concentration in just that super small area is really cool, too.

Kris Hampton  1:17:38

Yeah, I don't think I've been to Middle Creek. 

Juliet Hammer  1:17:40

Really? 

Kris Hampton  1:17:41

Yeah, I don't think so.

Juliet Hammer  1:17:41

You definitely gotta go. Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  1:17:43

Cool. Okay, favorite rest day activity, because it's gonna rain and you're gonna have to take a rest day. Whether you want to or not.

Juliet Hammer  1:17:52

I personally just like to go sit in a coffee shop. Get those cozy feeling vibes. I'm also, I guess, living here it's, it's just a nice to get out of my house to do work and go to a coffee shop.

Kris Hampton  1:18:10

Do you have a favorite part of town you'd like to go to when you go to coffee shops?

Juliet Hammer  1:18:15

Um, it kind of varies, but I live up in the North Shore here. And there's, yeah, just a lot of fun little streets that have a bunch of different shops. And I don't know, they're just, it's just kind of a cute part of town, all the shops are in like little houses.

Kris Hampton  1:18:38

Yeah, I've got the North Shore written down here for sure. I think if you're into doing touristy things, there's, the aquarium is quite good. I haven't been in a lot of years, but I do remember it being good. And then something my wife was really interested in when we were down there because she's from the west is the like Civil War battlefields and Civil War history was really interesting to her. 

Juliet Hammer  1:19:03

Yeah, for sure. 

Kris Hampton  1:19:05

And I think there's also the option of exploring the other bouldering areas because there's so many. Take your chalk bag because you're gonna want to touch holds, but don't take your shoes because you're gonna want to climb and it's a rest day. So I think those are cool things to do. And, and one thing my wife and I do quite a bit when we're in the southeast is go to antique shops and things like that. There's just, you can find some really interesting and questionable things in antique shops in the southeast. So, I think that's a really fun thing to do.

Juliet Hammer  1:19:43

Yeah, yeah. When my parents came and visited actually we went to one of the battlefields and yeah, it is, it is funny to just remember that history and um, yeah...

Kris Hampton  1:19:59

Yeah, it's a, it's a complicated history, I think it's worth, you know, trying to wrap your brain around how this country became what it is and I don't know if there's a better place to do it than in these battlefields where you really have to confront our, our history. Okay, anything, anything else you want to say about the southeast before we wrap this thing up?

Juliet Hammer  1:20:28

Um, yeah: Leave the ego at the door, rock climb to have fun, don't take it too seriously. And I guess, a little volume goes a long way with learning the style here.

Kris Hampton  1:20:44

Definitely. That's, that's really good beta. And you know, I think leave your ego at the door is for sure the best beta for climbing in the southeast, it's really fun, really frustrating. If, if ever there was a playground for rock climbing built, it would certainly look just like some of these areas. We'll have a bunch of other extras in the blog post for this, you know: best guidebook, gear shops, gyms, things like that. We'll also have links to the SCC that you should be checking in with and donating to. All sorts of other bonuses we'll have in there, as well as videos and links to Juliet's Instagram so you can see some of her boulders and especially if you need the shorty beta, she is the go-to for that. Before we wrap this up, Juliet, will you tell the folks one more time where they can find you online?

Juliet Hammer  1:21:45

Yeah, I'm on Instagram @juliet_amanda and then my website is julietamanda.com

Kris Hampton  1:21:53

Awesome. And if you're looking for how to prepare for your southeastern bouldering trip, reach out to Juliet - she's got you. Thanks so much for doing this. I'm already looking forward to the Granite versus Sandstone conversation we're gonna have in the future. 

Juliet Hammer  1:22:11

Yeah, thanks for having me on.

Kris Hampton  1:22:13

Yeah, and you can find us at powercompanyclimbing.com, on the Instagrams, Facebook's, all of those places: @powercompanyclimbing and, are you on Twitter?

Juliet Hammer  1:22:25

No. 

Kris Hampton  1:22:28

I like this.

Juliet Hammer  1:22:29

It seems like a dark, like a dark corner of the internet that I do not want to go to.

Kris Hampton  1:22:35

You will also not find us on Twitter because we don't tweet, we scream like eagles.