Episode 18: V11 to 5.11 with Carrie Cooper, DPT

Yes, you read that correctly.  V11 to 5.11.  

In this episode I have a really great conversation with V11 boulderer, mom, and physical therapist Carrie Cooper.  She's set big goals for her sport climbing... but 5.11 is still difficult for her.  Not necessarily physically, but it's hard nonetheless. We walk through her process, how she deals with the ego, and talk about what she's learning.  Carrie takes a really smart approach to her fears... one that we can all learn from.  

As a special addition to this episode, I also talk with Carrie's coach, Dan Mirsky, about his perspective on Carrie's situation and progress.

You can find Carrie at: Rev Physical Therapy

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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:32

What's up everybody? I'm your host Kris Hampton. Welcome to Episode 18 of the Power Company Podcast brought to you by powercompanyclimbing.com. Before I go any further, I want to say a huge, huge thanks and a shout out to all of our patrons. We met our first monthly goal, which means that this podcast is commercial and sponsor free other than us in our own commercials, of course. And we're excited about that our next goal, which is to reach $100, a month would mean that we're going to look into getting more portable, so that Nate and I can each have a recording setup that's ultra portable, we could even take it to the crags interview people right after they came off their projects, we could talk pretty much anywhere in that situation. So that could really open up some doors. If you want to become a patron you can do that at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast. That's definitely the best monetary way to help us out. And and we greatly appreciate it so big shout out to all of our current patrons. Thanks. We love you guys. Also, I just got shirts up on the website. So I've got to I've got tanks, I've got hoodies, it's all for sale, you can go to powercompanyclimbing.com. Click on the apparel tab. And you'll find all of those just in time for the Christmas season. You can stuff the stockings of your favorite partner, and rep your favorite training company at the crag. So go get on that. Today, I've got a pretty cool conversation. And yes, you read that title correctly it is V11 to 5.11 not the other way around how you might expect. I'm talking today with Carrie Cooper, who is mostly known as a boulderer. She is also a mom of two kids, a Doctor of Physical Therapy. She runs the Forefront Physical Therapy at the Front Climbing Gym and you can find her at forefrontslc.com if you're interested in checking out her services. She's super knowledgeable. So she probably a good place to look if you're having any troubles with your body over there in Salt Lake. And Carrie and I talked about her journey in becoming a sport climber. She has the sport climbing goals that she's stoked about. But she's a boulderer and sport climbing scares her a little bit. So we really dig into that. And I've got kind of a special treat to this episode. We're doing it a little bit different. So after the conversation with Carrie, which which we had to cut sort of short because we were on a pretty tight time schedule. She was getting the her Forefront PT opened up. And it was during OR. So we were both a little crazy at the time. And so we had to cut it a little short, but I did get the chance to talk to her coach Dan Mirsky just the other day and I recorded a short conversation with Dan talking about his work with Carrie so we get both perspectives here Carrie's and Dan's as the coach so after the conversation with Carrie stick around and listen to the short conversation with Dan. All right, I'm gonna get this thing going.

Carrie Cooper  03:57

I think that oftentimes we look at the successes more than we look at the failures and give more weight to success than we do failure but failure is such a part of the process.

Carrie Cooper  04:28

Up in Big Cottonwood Canyon

Kris Hampton  04:31

What's the sport climbing like up there never been there?

Carrie Cooper  04:33

That's funny cuz I really hadn't either.

Kris Hampton  04:37

Granite obviously, right?

Carrie Cooper  04:38

No, it's not granite.

Kris Hampton  04:40

No?

Carrie Cooper  04:40

 It is something else. And I don't know what it is. I wish I had more information for you but I don't because I rolled up in there without a guide. Got a little bit lost ended up on a 35 meter sport climb, ran out of draws had to use some pitons were fixed, down, climbed, traversed, and realized that I was like 30 feet above, and 30 feet to the left of the anchors.

Kris Hampton  05:13

 Oh, man, that sounds like a nightmare.

Carrie Cooper  05:15

It was kind of fun. Actually. It was a good adventure. That's good. It's really easy.

Kris Hampton  05:19

It's good it didn't freak you out of sport climbing?

Carrie Cooper  05:22

No, I definitely had a moment where I was like I should. I should just down climb and donate that quickdraw. Like, that would be the smart thing. But I was like, nope, I'm gonna stick with it. See what happens. I'm climbing on easy stuff. It'll be fine. And it was fine.

Kris Hampton  05:43

It usually is. It's, I don't think it's logic, though. I don't think logic applies. So I think that's a good segue into what we're going to talk about here. So...

Carrie Cooper  05:54

Right. 

Kris Hampton  05:55

So you're you're known as a boulder. You're a strong Boulder. And you're apparently a cat lover, or at least cats love you. 

Carrie Cooper  06:04

Maybe the cat just really likes...

Kris Hampton  06:05

The cat is like mauling your face on the microphone right now. But, uh, but sport climbing is something you've made some goals in.

Carrie Cooper  06:13

 Mm hmm. 

Kris Hampton  06:15

But it kind of freaks you out. Right?

Carrie Cooper  06:17

Right. It's it is an illogical fear. Most of it is related to the gear just not having had the experience with it. Not having pushed myself to my limits in sport climbing and really, you know, I can I can push through the crux. And then on the, you know, far easier, headwall, get completely scared and not be able to finish the route. It's completely illogical.

Kris Hampton  06:52

Yeah. So is it like a pump thing that causes you to freeze up? Is it? Because you're obviously strong enough for the cruxes of these routes? Let's, let's look at numbers really quick. And I know this sucks to look at numbers. But what would you consider yourself a solid boulder at what grade?

Carrie Cooper  07:10

I think the I've done more V10s than any other higher grade. I don't know that. That means that I'm a solid V10. climber or you've done i'm not i'm a solid V3 climber. Like I can pretty much climb any V3 on the planet.

Kris Hampton  07:25

That's always been my response when people in the gym are like, how hard Do you climb? Like I'm pretty good at 5.10.

Carrie Cooper  07:30

Yeah. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  07:32

So you've done lots of V10s correct?

Carrie Cooper  07:35

 Yeah, I've probably done 50 V10s.

Kris Hampton  07:37

And then what's your solid level for sport climbing?

Carrie Cooper  07:42

As of today, 511d.

Kris Hampton  07:45

Well, that's yeah. See

Carrie Cooper  07:46

Which I was very, very, very proud of today.

Kris Hampton  07:49

Yeah, no doubt. That's cool. So before we get into the details of it, do you mind sharing your sport climbing goal?

Carrie Cooper  07:59

Sure. 

Kris Hampton  08:00

Is Something we can put out into the ether?

Carrie Cooper  08:01

Of course. Yeah, you know, I, I'm a really big fan of goals. I think that having a really lofty goal is sometimes better than being short sighted and limiting yourself to the things that are easily graspable. But I believe in kind of a long term goal, short term goal scenario. So my long term goal right now is to climb 5.14. And my short term goal is to build up to that. So I have kind of this pyramid that I'm working with, with constant thought of, okay, how is this going to get me to that 5.14 goal? 

Kris Hampton  08:44

Right.

Carrie Cooper  08:44

Like, how can I apply this to, I mean, not only the training for it, but also the mental, I guess, the mental fortitude that it would take to actually complete that goal.

Kris Hampton  08:55

Yeah, and the whole thing, the planning the, you know, you have to have the right partners, and they're gonna need to be around for your intermediate goals as well. So there's, it's definitely good that you've got this big lofty goal. And then you can you can break that down into smaller goals and be okay. Reaching the big lofty goal slowly, right. That's important.

Carrie Cooper  09:22

Yeah. And not getting frustrated with the process. Yeah, 

Kris Hampton  09:25

No doubt.

Carrie Cooper  09:26

...taking a deep breath and going okay. What is what is the small success that I just had, like, trying to find that small success every time I go out, like today...

Kris Hampton  09:37

And really revel in those things,.

Carrie Cooper  09:38

Right. Mm hmm. 

Kris Hampton  09:39

Yeah. 

Carrie Cooper  09:39

And and let it let it guide the next day out. And I feel like, you know, slowly stacking all of those positives. It's yeah, it's a it's a success ladder.

Kris Hampton  09:54

Yeah. Now, where did you when you made this 5.14 goal? Where did you stand was sport climbing. Were you already aware that it was going to be a scary thing for you? 

Carrie Cooper  10:03

For sure. Yeah, absolutely. And, and also aware of where I'm at right now. So when I decided that I wanted to climb 5.14, I was failing on 5.12s in the gym and getting really frustrated and upset with myself. And going well, I climb this. So I should climb this,

Kris Hampton  10:29

Right, because the moves on a 5.12 or V4 V5 tops. 

Kris Hampton  10:34

Sure, but to me...

Kris Hampton  10:36

Whiich are things you warm up on regularly.

Carrie Cooper  10:38

Right. So to me a month ago, a 5.11 felt exactly like 5.14 because I was giving it the same amount of force.

Kris Hampton  10:49

Right.

Carrie Cooper  10:49

 And so learning really what it takes to climb it all those different levels is a really fun journey. So I know the strength of what those those crux moves should feel like. So I'm really thankful for that. I feel like that's a really positive thing. 

Kris Hampton  11:11

Right.

Carrie Cooper  11:12

 And I just try to remind myself, when I'm there, and all the while, I'm kind of building up my endurance. Because I've, I've always been kind of that sprinter and not a runner kind of thing. Where I can just, you know, bear down and just push really hard through something for like seven moves. 

Kris Hampton  11:32

Right. 

Carrie Cooper  11:33

So the moment that I was touching the rock, I would start holding my breath immediately. 

Kris Hampton  11:37

Yeah. 

Carrie Cooper  11:38

And I would get to the second bolt and be like, Oh, I'm totally pumped right now. I have, there's just no way I can even make it to the top, let alone and it didn't matter what grade that was. It was always the same amount of force. So learning how to meter out the force.

Kris Hampton  11:56

Yep. And relax a little more when you can. 

Carrie Cooper  12:00

Yes.

Kris Hampton  12:00

Yeah, and what was so what? Walk me through the ego that had to be kept in check. When you're going, okay, I'm, I'm getting pumped, and I'm failing on 5.11 climbing. When I know I can lower down right now. And do you know, a V8 on the other side of the gym? 

Carrie Cooper  12:26

Right.

Kris Hampton  12:27

 How did you handle that? I mean, you're, you're in a gym environment. So were you at all worried about people looking at you and saying, wait, I thought she was stronger? You know? 

Carrie Cooper  12:37

Absolutely. 

Kris Hampton  12:39

How do you deal with that?

Carrie Cooper  12:41

And that, that didn't come from anything outside. You know, that came from me having that discussion with myself and being like, you have to feel confident in the things that you've already done. And recognize that this is a huge goal. And this is something that I've set out to do. So many summers is just been a one right after the other. And I would just go straight to that hard thing. And try it and try it and get shut down and get frustrated. And then the moment that bouldering season was upon us, I would just go to what was easy and easy for me. 

Kris Hampton  13:19

Right.

Carrie Cooper  13:19

And just go straight there.

Kris Hampton  13:20

Dive right back into the same place. 

Carrie Cooper  13:22

Right. So starting early on, and being okay, with not making it to the level that I wanted to be at right off the get go. Like just always reminding myself, this is a goal. This is a goal. You have to stay on a course there's...

Kris Hampton  13:41

There's a process involved here. Yeah, I think that's really important. I think you started that out by saying that that conversation was all inside you that was you having conversation with yourself. And I think that's really easy for people to forget. 

Carrie Cooper  13:56

Yes.

Kris Hampton  13:57

 That they, they feel like people are watching them. So it becomes fact, like, yeah, people are watching me people think I suck, you know, whatever. When really it's just yourself thinking that people are watching you. Chances are there might be one catty girl in the gym who's watching, but but chances are no one's noticing, or or they've struggled with the exact same thing. So they know what's happening.

Carrie Cooper  14:23

I think that oftentimes we look at the successes, more than we look at the failures and give more weight to success than we do failure. But failure is such a part of the process.

Kris Hampton  14:34

Yeah. And a bigger part of it. I mean, we fail way more than we succeed.

Carrie Cooper  14:40

 Absolutely. 

Kris Hampton  14:41

You know, and if you don't fail more than you succeed, you're probably not trying very hard.

Carrie Cooper  14:45

Right. 

Kris Hampton  14:45

Frankly. 

Carrie Cooper  14:46

Yeah, I mean, we all want to be just really good at it. We want to just be able to say, I have only been doing this for a year and I'm...

Kris Hampton  14:54

Right. Yeah.

Carrie Cooper  14:56

...I'm climbing 5.14 It's not the reality. Yeah. And it's okay to fail. And once I realized for myself that it was okay to fail, I stopped looking to others. For an okay.

Kris Hampton  15:13

Yeah. And it doesn't matter where that failure happens. You know, it's like you see a lot of people failing on big numbers. I actually once heard someone in Red River Gorge, who is obviously in over their head, you know, on this 12b getting destroyed by it. And I overheard him say, "Well, at least I can tell everybody, I'm working at 12b now." And I was like, so he's probably failing on 11b as well. Yeah. But doesn't want to tell people I'm failing on 11b. 

Carrie Cooper  15:48

Right. 

Kris Hampton  15:48

So it sounds cooler to fail on a big number. 

Carrie Cooper  15:51

Sure. 

Kris Hampton  15:51

But but that's counterproductive. Yeah, you need to, you need to work your failures up just the same way you work your successes up.

Carrie Cooper  15:59

Absolutely. And I think that it for whatever your goal is challenging yourself on those things that you're maybe a little bit weaker at that aren't your strength will make you a better climber in total. So even if I don't, and that's another side of this, that is okay, that if I don't make my goal, and know that this is going to make me a better climber, on some level, I'm going to feel it. I'm already feeling it.

Kris Hampton  16:26

Yeah. Yeah. And it may very well and probably will help with your bouldering to some degree. 

Carrie Cooper  16:32

Absolutely. 

Kris Hampton  16:33

You know, if you can, the knowing how to relax part, especially, will be huge.

Carrie Cooper  16:39

The breathing. 

Kris Hampton  16:40

Yeah. So are there things that you're specifically doing now? So now you're training with Dan Mirsky. The front training room. 

Carrie Cooper  16:48

Right.

Kris Hampton  16:49

Are there specific things you guys do? Or that you do on your own? 

Carrie Cooper  16:53

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  16:54

To kind of work through these breathing issues or relaxation issues.

Carrie Cooper  16:59

So a lot of what I do with Dan is looking at what is my what's like 80% of my max, and trying to prolong the amount of time that I can be at 80%. So that's, you know, mixing a boulder problem with rows and ball slams. And it's, it's extensive, and it's a lot of circuiting. So I get my upper body, my lower body, my heart gets involved, and I have to mentally calm everything back down and just say, okay, you know, the the part of this circuit is I'm going to do a boulder problem. And then I'm going to go and I'm going to row for 200 meters, I'm going to do eight ball slams, and I'm going to rest 30 seconds. And in that 30 seconds, it's enough time for me to put my climbing shoes back on and get back on the wall. So my heart rate is up high. But I look at it. And I'm like, okay, I've already done this rock climb. And I know that it's hard may have a big move right at the end, but I can do it. And I just have to settle down my system, enough to make it through that crux. And then I keep going. And I'm able to do like the endurance portion of it. And I think that's been not only helpful with increasing my overall endurance, but also, for example, I was sport climbing this morning. And there was I was reading the route. And typically, I'm really terrible at reading routes, I'll end up like 10 feet off route, and be like, hey, Carrie doing okay, up there. But today, I looked up and I was like, okay, I see that there's a crux above me. But that looks like a good hold. So I'll just push through the crux. And I'll be able to call my heart rate up on that hold up there, and maybe for the next few. And so I tried that. It was just it was total trial and error, just trying to apply what I'm doing in my training, and work through the moves of this rock climb. And it worked perfectly. And I was like, Wow.

Kris Hampton  19:08

That's cool. How that works. 

Carrie Cooper  19:11

That is direct application.

Kris Hampton  19:14

Yeah, for sure. And just just a note about the thing that Dan has you doing. I think another important part of that, you know, getting to a fatigue level. And then getting back onto a rock climb and pushing yourself through that you know you can do it. important note about that is especially if you're getting to climb outside at the same time. It really helps to save skin to do those rows or ball slams or whatever it is that you're doing to get your fatigue level up to get your heart rate up. And then you get back on the rock climb instead of just doing rock climbs at 80%. 

Carrie Cooper  19:52

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  19:53

Where there might be technical failure or whatever. This way you're getting on something, you know Well, you're saving skin and then you get on it. 

Carrie Cooper  20:02

Absolutely.

Kris Hampton  20:03

 And get the test out.

Carrie Cooper  20:04

Because a lot of times, even on a route, you know, there's there's an obvious section of hard climbing, followed by basically easy climbing that you're just kind of moving through...

Kris Hampton  20:15

Right, which is where you said you were failing.

Carrie Cooper  20:17

Exactly. Which is my, I'm really excited about the success today, just just in the process of being able to work through that, like it's it's been, it has increased my confidence in achieving my goal. Like today, it was kind of a big day for me. 

Kris Hampton  20:35

Yeah.

Carrie Cooper  20:36

Even though the number wasn't huge.

Kris Hampton  20:38

And what are some of the successes that you've found along the way? And, and not not number wise, but, you know, are there days where you just revel in the fact that you had fun? Instead of getting stressed out? You know..

Carrie Cooper  20:53

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  20:54

What are some of the things that you've noticed along the way that that felt like success for you?

Carrie Cooper  20:59

Are we talking about even with bouldering, or...

Kris Hampton  21:02

With sport climbing, like with with battling this, this demon that you're fighting with now.

Carrie Cooper  21:08

Um, some of the successes are breathing, and reminding myself to breathe, and working that into the flow of the climb? I think that that was a huge. Yeah, that changed my climbing a lot. Because if I could rest, and then be able to breathe in and out through my nose, then I knew I can move on from there. And if I couldn't, then I was probably only going to make it about three more moves and then fall. And so that understanding how my breathing has been, how my breathing works, has been a big success. The other one is so many things.

Kris Hampton  22:05

So are there are there times when you feel like, like, I know, you're a you're a very mindful climber?

Carrie Cooper  22:12

Oh, I just thought of a really, really important one.

Kris Hampton  22:14

Hit me with it.

Carrie Cooper  22:15

Sorry. I'm a little bit OCD about the safety aspect of climbing.

Kris Hampton  22:20

For sure. Which is not a bad thing.

Kris Hampton  22:24

Right.

Kris Hampton  22:25

 But unless you let it scary,

Carrie Cooper  22:27

Yeah. And I was definitely letting it scare me. I would, of course, check my check my my belayer check myself before I got on the rack. But then I would check my knot, probably every three or four moves.

Kris Hampton  22:41

Right .

Carrie Cooper  22:41

And look at the rope and look at my harness and go, Oh, well, I'm in a no fall zone. Like if I if something gives I'm on the ground, I'm dead. I'm and that would just...

Kris Hampton  22:52

So your assuming a point of failure is gonna happen there?

Carrie Cooper  22:55

Correct. And so I, I set it upon myself to check my knot once, check my belayer while I was on the ground, and then just forget about it. 

Kris Hampton  23:09

Yeah.

Carrie Cooper  23:09

Just go. And that was really big, because then it allowed me to flow and be more efficient.

Kris Hampton  23:18

Yeah, I think that's huge. You know, I tell a lot of people and I do this, almost religiously, that when I'm getting onto a climb, I discuss it with my belayer you know, if particularly if they don't know, that, here's where I might fall, here's where I'm going to struggle. Here's where I'm going to do a big move and need more rope. You can give me more rope than you think I'm not going to hit the ground. You know, I go over the whole thing with them. Because then it puts it out of my mind. Like I don't get up there and wonder if they are paying attention and know what's happening. You know, so so I try to ease my mind before I even leave the ground. And I think that's huge. Instead of getting up there and freaking out because you don't know you you and your belayer aren't communicating. 

Carrie Cooper  24:06

That's huge. 

Kris Hampton  24:07

Yeah.

Carrie Cooper  24:07

Create a relationship of trust before you even leave the ground.

Kris Hampton  24:11

Yeah, exactly. And it's mines not based on fear. It's just based on I want to I want to get rid of any excuse I have up there to let my mind wander. 

Carrie Cooper  24:21

Absolutely. 

Kris Hampton  24:22

Yo know, I want to be focused in on what I'm doing. And and I always climb better when I do. So are there times in your in your sport climbing journey that you're in? Because you're a really mindful climber and you pay close attention to your movement and your breathing and your flow. Have you seen levels of relaxation because I feel like a lot of people just they want instant gratification like I've been practicing relaxing now I need to be relaxed. Like there's no there are no levels there.

Carrie Cooper  24:57

No I and I've been yes, recognizing I always heard this term, you can rest there and just get it all back. And I still don't really understand that yet. I get it a little bit. Because you have to be able to be okay with being slightly uncomfortable. 

Kris Hampton  25:19

Sure. 

Carrie Cooper  25:19

And moving with that discomfort and being okay with it. And it's a little bit like the the double check of the knot. Before you start moving, if you're say you're pumped, and you're getting a little uncomfortable, and you're not sure of the moves, or you're on siding, recognizing that, okay, I can still squeeze my fist and make this this move. I'm just going to relax and do it. Because the pump is going to be there, it's never going to go away completely. I mean, what's for climbers rest for like an hour, between ferns on their projects. So it obviously takes a long time. So while you're on a route, it's not going to go away completely. You're not going to find this, like total body relaxation, you're rock climbing. And I think the moment that, especially for me, I realized that okay, I'm pumped, but I can still climb these moves. Okay, cool. Let's do this. You know, it's that fix it and forget it kind of thing.

Kris Hampton  26:24

Yep. And that's another important part of the training is you get to learn all the levels of pumped. Because a lot of beginning.

Carrie Cooper  26:33

I'm surprised we don't have different words for pumped. Like...

Kris Hampton  26:38

Yeah, there definitely need to be. Well, there's a route and Red River Gorge called 50 Words for Pump. So... 

Carrie Cooper  26:43

Oh, wow. 

Kris Hampton  26:44

We need to figure those out. But my fiance always she'll complain about being pumped really quickly on a route. And I'm like, you're still moving perfectly in control. You look great. You're not pumped yet. You know, that's not pumped yet. And she said that once while our mutual friend Brittany Griffith was standing nearby. And Brittany said, well, that's rock climbing. I'm pumped all the time. When I leave the ground, when I get to the top, I'm pumped. So I reminder of that all the time. Because to her pump, meant... you know, shut down. Right now I'm about to fall because I'm pumped. But the training that you're doing lets you learn how much further you can go.

Carrie Cooper  27:28

Yes. And when I first started, like day one, I was feeling the pump all the way into my back fascia and up into my forehead. 

Kris Hampton  27:36

Right, right. 

Carrie Cooper  27:37

And I really could hardly drive myself home. I was like, This is never gonna work. This is awful.

Kris Hampton  27:47

So did you were you training before the sport climbing thing with with a coach? 

Carrie Cooper  27:52

No.

Kris Hampton  27:52

 Start working with Dan specifically for the sport climbing?

Carrie Cooper  27:55

Specifically for this. Yeah.

Kris Hampton  27:57

Yeah. I think that's something a lot of people can learn from because you're a you're a talented rock climber. You're an experienced climber. But you felt the need for some reason to reach out to a coach who could push you through. Why was that?

Carrie Cooper  28:13

Well, I've always had an interest. No, I wouldn't say always within the last maybe three years. So I had my second child. And then three months later, I went to Physical Therapy school. So that basically took my rock climbing and dropped it down. But like far below what I was basically starting from scratch, and so I could get myself back up to an area that was comfortable. But I was you know, I was plateauing out at V6. And I was like, I can't, I don't know how to push past this because I'd never trained for rock climbing. And I had some friends of mine in the shrine crew. So Steve Maisch and Justin Wood. And I was just talking to them about it. And they were like, you should come and train with us. And that's how I started working on the Moon board. And working with them helped me push through my, my plateau. And then...

Kris Hampton  29:13

 Into some uncomfortable zones

Carrie Cooper  29:15

Yeah, absolutely. I would. It wasn't something that I was doing religiously, by any means. It was like, oh, okay, well, we'll go on this day together. And it wasn't anything where I had like a plan. I kind of had a plan here and there. But I really didn't stick to it.

Kris Hampton  29:31

So it was more like working out.

Carrie Cooper  29:33

Yeah, it was it was adding a little bit of a yeah, some spice to my workout. 

Kris Hampton  29:40

Yeah. But it lets you see that, that getting into those uncomfortable zones in in a training setting is going to be helpful.

Carrie Cooper  29:50

Yeah, I was always kind of the anti training person because I climbed in Flagstaff. And at the time, I never climbed in a gym. Never, ever I could climb outside all year round. 

Kris Hampton  30:02

Yeah.

Carrie Cooper  30:03

 And that was, you know, I had there was the it was the circuit at the Priest Draw, you know, where I had specific problems that I would go to, and it was two tries and your out. And if you make it to the end of your circuit, if it's a perfect circuit, then you can add a rock climb, or you can work on your project, or, you know, something like that. So that was how I trained by bringing in that kind of gym.

Kris Hampton  30:27

You were bouldering, you were kind of it's, it's really easy for all of us to find a comfort zone and stay in it. 

Carrie Cooper  30:34

Absolutely.

Kris Hampton  30:35

 You know, and I commend you for stepping outside of it, particularly if you have to take a little blow to the ego and, you know, take a step down and work back up to a place where you, you might have thought you should be. That's really hard to do. 

Carrie Cooper  30:53

Thanks. 

Kris Hampton  30:53

Yeah. Thanks for sitting down with me. 

Carrie Cooper  30:56

It's such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Kris Hampton  31:00

Do not go anywhere. We've still got more coming up. Big thanks to Carrie for taking time out and sitting down with me. And you're not alone out there. If you're scared of sport climbing, if you get in your own head while you're climbing. You're not alone. It happens to even really, really strong climbers like Carrie. So let's take a quick break. And then we'll be back with Dan. 

Kris Hampton  31:27

What's up everybody, Kris here, pardon the interruption. I'll keep this short and sweet. Since this podcast started taking off, and we've been growing it, you guys have been asking how you can help out, I've got three ways for you. Number one, you can become a patron. That just means you give a monthly donation to the podcast $1 and up, and you get something in return. And you can check out what those rewards are at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast. Best of all, we'll keep it sponsor and commercial free for you. Number two, you can rate us and review us on iTunes. I know it's a pain in the ass to go to iTunes and do all that. But it really helps us out. At least that's what I'm told by the podcast powers that be. And number three, perhaps the easiest way and the best way to help us out is to share us on your social medias. Anytime you see us post up a new podcast, please share it with your friends, tag people who will really appreciate it, or who need to hear the advice that we're giving. All right, thank you guys. And back to the show. 

Kris Hampton  32:32

But yeah, I'm so I want to talk to you about one of your clients who had a conversation with at OR. And we had a quick talk because she was busy with all the OR goings on. But but a really great talk. And the talk was about her like journey from V11 to 5.11. You know, and we talked about her 5.14 goal that she made and her struggle with sport climbing and and what that looks like so far. 

Dan Mirsky  33:01

Yep. 

Kris Hampton  33:02

And I just kind of wanted to get your insight into what it was like being on the coaching end of that. 

Dan Mirsky  33:09

Yeah, for sure.

Kris Hampton  33:09

 So, in my mind, that's a cool situation to be in because you've got this super strong boulderer. And you know, the skills for sport climbing because you're a sport climber ya know, largely. And what was it like when she came in and said, I want to climb 5.14 What was your initial reaction to that?

Dan Mirsky  33:34

We use names right? 

Kris Hampton  33:36

Yeah, yeah. 

Dan Mirsky  33:37

So Carrie Cooper's a is someone I actually just got to know this year as new to Salt Lake and, and she is now become involved with the business I work in at the Front Climbing Gym, and she's got her physical therapy center there. And you know, it's really cool us just becoming friends this summer and learning and learning about each other's people and as climbers. And yeah, she started talking to me about wanting to transition from sport climbing. And from bouldering to sport climbing, and at that point, I don't even think I was even aware of how badass of a boulderer Carrie was. 

Kris Hampton  34:12

Right. Right. 

Dan Mirsky  34:13

So I was kind of like, Oh, yeah, sure, you know, like, you know, we can we can take a bouldeerr and make you a sport climber. Just take a little bit of building some endurance. And then we kind of started climbing together a little bit bouldering in the front, and I was like, Wow. Alright.

Kris Hampton  34:29

Like she's strong. She's for real.

Dan Mirsky  34:31

She's really strong. Yeah. And so that was then got really more exciting for me. Because you get a lot of boulders I think who assume that because the moves are easier. The transition to sport climbing is gonna be easy. 

Kris Hampton  34:45

Right, right.

Dan Mirsky  34:46

You know, and then they they get to the third bolt where the boulder problem ends and they get pumped, they fall off and they can't figure out why they fell off the wall and then they just complain about being pumped and and some of that happens with Carrie for sure. 

Kris Hampton  34:59

Yeah.

Dan Mirsky  35:00

 And the one thing that's been awesome with Carrie, I think, is her willingness to go through the process. You know? 

Kris Hampton  35:07

Yeah, we talked a lot about that. And for her, she told me that the process used to end like, like until she worked with you, she would like make this 5.14 goal. Go like, go bang her head against the wall on some hard route. And then as soon as bouldering season came, she was like, fuck it. I'm done. I'm going bouldering you know, and I just talked to her yesterday, and she's out sport climbing with the girls in St. George.

Dan Mirsky  35:35

St. George, up at the Wailing Wall and Cathedral.

Kris Hampton  35:38

Yeah, not bailed out to bouldering yet, which is pretty cool. She's seeing this thing through. 

Dan Mirsky  35:42

She's sticking with it. Yeah, you know, and that, for someone like her with the strength, she already possesses the skills she possesses. It's just that stick to-itiveness that she's got to get through. Yep. But yeah, I mean, what one of the things I was trying to do with Carrie was have her simultaneously build a base by having a cut her teeth on 5.11 and get pumped and fall off. And then also, I would, I would have her try the 5.14 sport routes, I was trying when we'd go out climbing together, so that she was building that base. And also building that understanding that she was totally capable of doing these harder rock climbs.

Kris Hampton  36:20

 Right.

Dan Mirsky  36:20

 And it was just this one other the other part had to they had to merge, you know, so like, her skill set her strength and power are there. She was doing moves on 5.14 I mean, she was basically doing as well in the 5.14s that she was doing on the 5.12s.

Kris Hampton  36:33

 Right.

Dan Mirsky  36:34

Because she just didn't have the fitness yet. 

Kris Hampton  36:35

Yeah. And she didn't really have her head wrapped around.

Dan Mirsky  36:38

 Yeah, yeah, the head has been a big one for her. You know? 

Kris Hampton  36:41

We talked about that quite a bit. And I think what you just outlined is a cool way for almost anybody to approach their sport climbing goals, you know, build your base up, but at the same time, go check out what what the hard routes are. Do you know if your big goal is 12b. Go get on 12b's once in a while

Dan Mirsky  36:58

Know what it's all about. Yeah, totally. Man. You don't know. You know, you build up this idea in your mind how hard something's going to be. And you build it up beyond what it really is. 

Kris Hampton  37:09

Yeah, you just romanticize it.

Dan Mirsky  37:10

Yeah. And then you're scared of it. Yeah. Like that. There's not even holds up there. I haven't learned like the level 10 magic trick to to levitate yet.

Kris Hampton  37:20

Neither have I.

Dan Mirsky  37:20

But there's always holds up there. 

Kris Hampton  37:22

Yeah, totally.

Dan Mirsky  37:25

And one thing I think I realized with Carrie, after spending a little bit time with her, and this is I think another thing that's common with boulderser is with sport climbers. There's a with getting pumped and climbing even there's just a willingness to be uncomfortable. 

Kris Hampton  37:44

Yeah.

Dan Mirsky  37:45

 When you're bouldering. And you're executing hard boulder problems, especially the way that Carrie climbs when you see her do something well, I mean, you're like, was that V11? Or was that v3? 

Kris Hampton  37:55

Right.

Dan Mirsky  37:56

 She just crushed it. 

Kris Hampton  37:57

Yep.

Dan Mirsky  37:57

She likes things to be like that, too as a person, even I've noticed it with her. And so I try to get her into situations that just make her a little uncomfortable. You know, not like scary, but a little bit so she gets, you know, alright, with being out there on lead, because that's definitely an issue for her and just kind of climbing, pumped and uncomfortable.

Kris Hampton  38:18

 Yeah.

Dan Mirsky  38:18

 I think that as much as the fitness component is, is a big part of that transition from bouldering to sport climbing has been for her.

Kris Hampton  38:26

Yeah, totally, we talked a little bit about that you would have her do circuits in the gym, and then have to, you know, execute a boulder problem that she could already do.

Dan Mirsky  38:36

Totally.

Kris Hampton  38:36

 And I think that's a really great way to approach someone who's already an athlete already understands their body and understands what they can do under duress, you know, and to teach them that this is I can still do these moves, regardless of what my heart rates doing, regardless of how tired I am, how pumped I feel, you know, whatever. And then Carrie can make those connections because she's an athlete.

Kris Hampton  39:02

Totally,

Dan Mirsky  39:02

I think that's super athlete and a practitioner. You know, yeah, exactly.  She's an amazing Physical Therapist. She's done some some work kind of in a Pilates style and also dry needling with me to help me with some stuff she got.

Kris Hampton  39:15

She understands all that.

Dan Mirsky  39:16

She gets it.

Kris Hampton  39:17

Yeah.

Dan Mirsky  39:17

But at the same time, she's so she's she can be resistant to it to where I like, i'm like...

Kris Hampton  39:24

I think that's true of any athlete.

Dan Mirsky  39:25

 Oh, for sure.

Kris Hampton  39:26

 You get them... the higher level they are the more resistant they can be to something

Dan Mirsky  39:29

Yeah, you know, and but it's been, I think, you know, it took a little bit of her trusting me to let me get her out of that comfort zone. 

Kris Hampton  39:37

Yeah.

Dan Mirsky  39:38

 You know, and that's something that part of of recognizing, you can still climb when you feel blown up or uncomfortable. Your heart rates through the roof. Something we all figure out when we climb on a rope, but it's not something you necessarily do when you're executing hard boulders. 

Kris Hampton  39:52

Yeah.

Dan Mirsky  39:53

You know, so that I think that was like one of my big focus points with Carrie and I think has been helpful for her for sure. 

Kris Hampton  39:59

Yep. I think it's pretty cool that, that you started this by talking about Carrie as a friend, because that's a big part of building a relationship with your clients. And, and I think that means a lot to her too. And I think that's a big part of her journey in this is having somebody she trusts ...

Dan Mirsky  40:17

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  40:17

 Like you on the other side saying, you know, this is what we need to do. And and then she can follow that a little better than if she just reads it in a book or...

Dan Mirsky  40:29

 Totally 

Kris Hampton  40:29

...or on a you know, an online article or whatever.

Dan Mirsky  40:32

Definitely. Yeah. So yeah. Now Carrie, and I quickly became good friends.

Kris Hampton  40:37

 Yeah.

Dan Mirsky  40:37

 And then almost realized that we were like, should have been siblings somehow, like, I call her sister. She calls me brother like, 

Kris Hampton  40:46

Yep.

Dan Mirsky  40:46

 I think it took like three days before we just started having that good bickering relationship. But I have to remind her, you know who the coach is sometimes still.

Kris Hampton  40:54

Yeah. So before we wrap this up, where she at now? Like, where do you see her sport climbing at at the moment?

Kris Hampton  41:01

 Um, I would I know. 

Kris Hampton  41:03

It's been a couple months since I talked to her.

Dan Mirsky  41:04

Yeah, it's been a couple months. I know she she did have a little bit of like, getting psyched. I want to go bouldering 

Kris Hampton  41:10

Yeah. And sure.

Dan Mirsky  41:11

 You know, as a as a coach, you want to push people in the direction that they said they want to go in? 

Kris Hampton  41:17

Yep. 

Dan Mirsky  41:17

But also you want to see climbers being psyched on what they're doing. 

Kris Hampton  41:21

Yeah totally.

Dan Mirsky  41:21

 And I saw her kind of having some initial good progress with the sport climbing, then maybe seeing a little bit of frustration and plateau. I also didn't want her to lose all her power and strength. 

Kris Hampton  41:32

Right, right. 

Dan Mirsky  41:33

She had, you know, she started getting into Little Cottonwood and doing her thing up there. And I saw that as really good. You know, I wanted Carrie to like climb and feel good about her climbing. 

Kris Hampton  41:41

Totally. 

Dan Mirsky  41:41

So I'm guessing right now she's probably up at the Wailing Wall. Crushing 5.12. And I hope the other gal she's with are encouraging her to get on some some of the harder 5.13 routes up there. And I think in no time she could be doing something like Resurrection. That's kind of the one that I'm I've been following her on social and like, try Resurrection dude. 

Kris Hampton  42:02

Yeah is Resurrection 13.b? 

Dan Mirsky  42:03

13.b. 

Kris Hampton  42:04

Yeah.

Dan Mirsky  42:04

Yeah. One of the one of the best lines up there, just that gray, blue limestone and features like Hueco Tanks like these ears that just won't come off the wall. It's rad. So.

Kris Hampton  42:16

So cool. 

Dan Mirsky  42:16

That's where I see her. She sticks with it. I think this winter, easy. She gets to 5.13. And then we just keep going from there. 

Kris Hampton  42:24

Awesome. Yeah, that's cool. And I think it's it's good that you've got like a realistic plan that you're not like, Oh, you climb V11. You should just go Project bouldery 5.14, and be over it.

Dan Mirsky  42:33

Totally. Right.

Kris Hampton  42:34

 I think that's really cool. She's got a good approach to it. So I think this can be valuable to everybody.

Dan Mirsky  42:39

Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's a difference between just applying your bouldering skills and finding the easiest or not sorry, not easiest, but the the route that's most applicable to your bouldering skill set, or there's becoming a sport climber. 

Dan Mirsky  42:52

And that's what's awesome about Carrie is she's actually taking the time and investing the energy to become a sport climber, you know, and then, and then once you once you go through that initial process, like we all did, then you can be a boulderer and a sport climber. 

Kris Hampton  42:52

Right.

Kris Hampton  43:05

Totally. Absolutely.

Dan Mirsky  43:06

I think she's gonna be great at both.

Kris Hampton  43:08

Alright, cool, man. Thanks for thanks for sitting down and talking to me about it.

Dan Mirsky  43:11

Yeah, buddy.

Kris Hampton  43:14

What a great team needs to make Carrie takes a really great approach to the process and accepting failure, because that's a, you know, that's the biggest part of the process. That's how we learn. And she also is was able to let go of that ego that, that she realized she's creating herself. And I think that's huge. And having a coach like Dan, who knows the ins and outs and who's really invested in Carrie's performance, and in her well being. I think that that goes a really, really long way. And I have a feeling, Carrie's gonna get that 5.14 goal before long at all. So big thanks to Carrie. And big thanks to Dan for sitting down and taking time out to talk with me. And I've got more coming from both of them. So stay tuned. And I've got more coming from lots of people. You guys are getting spoiled here with these every week episodes. We'll keep them going to the end of the year, though, and then we'll see what it looks like from there. If you want to help out. I've already told you all the ways you can buy shirts, you can become a patron at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast. Help this thing keep growing in a cool direction. You can share us on your social medias. That's the Facebook's. That's the Instagrams. That's the Pinterest. And before I go any further, you guys know what's next. Right? But I have to say shout out to Carl. Carl sent me an email. Very jokingly telling me that it's not actually an eagle sound I use it's Red Tailed Hawk. But uh, Carl, I hate to tell you. That Red Tailed Hawk identifies as an eagle. So who are you to tell him different? We don't tweet. We scream like eagles.