Episode 23: Life Imitates Art with Miguel Ventura, and special guest Dario Ventura

This isn't about training.  It's bigger than that.  It's about community.

Miguel's Pizza.  It's been called the "Camp 4 of the East", but that title isn't big enough.  More than what you see on the surface... the cheap camping, amazing pizza, great place to meet partners and sneak beers in brown paper bags, an undeniable climbing institution... Miguel's is a community.  It's an idea.  An inspiration.  It's our Mecca, and it's a place that shaped not only my life, but the lives of countless people who've come of age sleeping (or trying to sleep) in the now famous "climber's only" campground.

With the help of his son Dario, who you'll also hear from in this podversation, I sat down with Miguel in his gear shop during normal business hours at the end of a busy season.  Sure, we talk about how it started and where it's going, but more importantly, we dig into what makes Miguel, the human, tick.  He's a complex character, but we learn how a box of crayons led to the ability to communicate with an unknown world.  We find out how a simple sketch provided a whole community of fringe dwellers a place to be themselves.  

That's all I'm going to say.  This is one you have to listen to.  

If you've never been, visit them on the web at: www.miguelspizza.com

Like what you hear?  Subscribe to The Power Company Podcast on ITunes, Google Play, or Stitcher Radio, and leave a rating and review!

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Kris Hampton  00:31

What's up everybody? I'm your host, Kris Hampton. Welcome to Episode 23 of the Power Company Podcast brought to you by powercompanyclimbing.com. We are one year old and just a few days. And it's been a successful year for Power Company Climbing, successful beyond any of my expectations, both in terms of business and even more important in terms of building this community. You guys have been amazing. You've really responded to everything I've asked, you've stepped it up every single time I've wanted you to help out with something from trusting as the help you with your training to telling your friends about what we do and, and not hear it every day at the crags and at the boulders, someone inevitably stops me and wants to talk about the Power Company, which I'm always more than happy to do. So thank you guys for, for being who you are. And for, you know, being part of this community. If you if any of you want to help, there are a bunch of ways you can do that. First, you can share us on your social medias. Second, you can become a patron. You can do that at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast. We've got several levels of patronage there and some goals that we want to meet. We've already reached goal number one, which means that this thing stays sponsor free, which I'm really stoked about. And we're nearly to goal number two, which means that we'll be buying equipment to do some new podcast ideas and some live podcasts. And thanks to Tommy Wilson for donating some of the equipment that we'll be using. And we've already started to develop our live podcast. So we're we're on our way. Last but not least, you can rate and review us on iTunes. And you guys have really stepped up with that. And that's why we've got this bonus episode today. And a couple of reviews recently that I've really enjoyed reading. David Kaczynski says This podcast is good stuff, you should subscribe and listen to them all, then check out the past blog post, then order an Ebook, then train like hell, then become a better climber. I couldn't have said it better myself. So thanks for that David. And one titled all meat and no bone from Eaches who says, love the podcast, it's great to be able to see further by standing on the shoulders of giants. This podcast brings the giants to you, and entertains you the entire time. Thanks, he says that's exactly what we're trying to do here. From the start. That's how I wanted it to be. So I'm stoked that that's what you guys are finding. So please go and give us a rating and a review on iTunes. We appreciate it. And because of all that support, you know, I figured you guys needed a bonus Christmas episode. And even though this, this episode is pretty much zero to do with training, it's about something that we value over here, just as much maybe more than progression and that's community. My guest today, Miguel Ventura, of the world famous Miguel's pizza could very easily be considered the patriarch of the Red River Gorge climbing community, even though he wouldn't accept that role. I think we can all agree that that's, that's a pretty it's a pretty good way to describe Miguel. This is a tough conversation to make happen, because Miguel is a busy busy dude. And, but Dario, Miguel's son, who's a good friend of mine made it happen. So thanks, Dario. And if you stick around after the conversation with Miguel, we'll also be talking to Dario a little bit kind of getting his perspective of what this crazy life has been like growing up in this Red River Gorge Community. I'm just gonna jump into this thing because I'm, I'm stoked how it came out. And yeah, I think you will be too. All right. 

Miguel Ventura  04:44

You don't need a costume to be a person. You just need just need to be yourself. Yeah, so I threw that outfit out and I became who I am today. A pizza man.

Kris Hampton  05:11

Stress level.

Kris Hampton  05:11

 Oh, the tourism is definitely, they're coming out more and more. So yeah, it was the volume was way bigger. Yeah. Well,

Kris Hampton  05:25

Yeah, I did see a lot more tourists here this year. That was kind of surprising, but it's good because they're here mostly during the day and then 

Miguel Ventura  05:31

yeah, yeah.

Kris Hampton  05:32

You no, they're out of here by the time the climbers are in, yeah, climbers run them out on the two.

Miguel Ventura  05:37

Yeah, well, the club that's like right now is kind of feels like the old days when, you know, you fed the climbers in the morning, and then they would come in at night during the day you just kind of laid out in the sun for a couple hours. 

Kris Hampton  05:48

Yeah, totally. So I think it's kind of fitting that we're sitting down here in the gear store right now, like, because this is kind of a new addition, you've done such an amazing job of growing this thing from its small beginnings into this, you know, world known Mecca that it's become so

Miguel Ventura  06:09

Well. I mean, let's get it straight. I haven't done anything like that. I mean, I was available for you guys. So I know I've always looked at as that, you know, I was here and you guys showed up. And I kind of made you made a place for you guys to hang out. Yeah, but I have nothing to do with it. Besides providing a space I think the guys that Martin and Porter and, you know, all those guys that were, you know, have the vision of developing, sharing, you know, those are I mean, I just provided a space and I'm, I enjoyed it. I was good.

Kris Hampton  06:47

Yeah. And I think, you know, I think you're being a little too humble in that respect, because, frankly, you know, this could have just been another backwoods middle of nowhere climbing area. But you've provided this spot for all these people to congregate and have a base and you know, Everywhere I go, climbing there there are Miguel's t-shirts, Miguels' stickers, and everybody's been here and knows this place. So let's go let's like rewind all the way back.

Miguel Ventura  07:18

Yeah. Talking about that is like when I was hanging out at the pizza shop and Dario was in diapers behind. 

Kris Hampton  07:27

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  07:30

And Martin showed up, you know, and they started hanging out Martin Hackworth, yeah, if you remember him.

Kris Hampton  07:36

Totally. 

Miguel Ventura  07:37

And he would show up with some of his friends with their tights and have ice cream. And they would come, you know, a few times. After a few weekends. He approached me and said, Listen, we really liked the spirit of this place. And we would you want to open up, you know, we could teach you how to rock climb, and you could sell the gear for us. 

Kris Hampton  08:00

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  08:01

But that's what really started that. It's like, they saw the spirit of the place. That's what anything is successful is about the spirit of it. 

Kris Hampton  08:13

Totally. Totally.

Miguel Ventura  08:14

So that's what started it. 

Kris Hampton  08:16

Yep. 

Miguel Ventura  08:17

And, but Martin have the awareness of that. 

Kris Hampton  08:22

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  08:23

So i give him some credit, you know, because he had the spirit of saying, Yeah, this place is cool. Let's, they're cool people. Let's do something here, you know?

Kris Hampton  08:32

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  08:32

Because I didn't even know what climbing was before then. I mean, I was totally naive. But... 

Kris Hampton  08:37

Yeah, and your right that's your right. That's super important. And I think that spirit kind of started way back in the beginning, because you were an artist or 

Miguel Ventura  08:45

Right.

Kris Hampton  08:45

Like you came over. You came to the US from Portugal. And when you were six?

Miguel Ventura  08:51

Seven, yeah.

Kris Hampton  08:51

 Six or seven. What year was that?

Miguel Ventura  08:53

Yeah, that was in 1959.

Kris Hampton  08:55

Okay. And then how early did you pick up art?

Miguel Ventura  08:59

Oh, I think it was that I didn't speak any English. So the teachers just gave me some crayons. 

Kris Hampton  09:05

Oh, yeah.

Miguel Ventura  09:06

And put me in the back of class. And he doesn't know how to speak a word. So we just put me back there. And I started doodling and and you know, they would give me like, assignments like to decorate the wall or something. 

Kris Hampton  09:23

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  09:23

And I started out with that, and just something that art just gave me an escape. Because coming from a village where you had nobody there. I mean, we didn't have anything I mean, basically. So it just gave me I don't know, just like a direction and... 

Kris Hampton  09:44

Sure.

Miguel Ventura  09:45

...and come into the United States where I didn't know anything. Living in an environment that was kind of terrifying because here we have a village that you it's healthy, located there. You're out in the woods and you come to a concrete jungle. 

Kris Hampton  10:03

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  10:03

And so art was an escape from that.

Kris Hampton  10:06

Yeah. And you were in Connecticut is that right?

Miguel Ventura  10:08

 Connecticut. We ended up in a in a ghetto there. That was pretty intense. I grew up with that until I was 16. and was able to have a vehicle to get out of there.

Kris Hampton  10:20

Yeah, from there. Did you go to California is that right?

Miguel Ventura  10:23

Not right away. I went to Rhode Island traveled around.

Kris Hampton  10:26

Ok. You were gonna go to the Rhode Island Institute of Art but decided you couldn't afford it.

Miguel Ventura  10:30

Yeah. Couldn't affot it. Yeah. But it was the Rhode Island School of Design. 

Kris Hampton  10:34

Okay.

Miguel Ventura  10:34

 I got accepted at that. But...

Kris Hampton  10:36

Yeah. And then when you moved out to California What? What was out there? Why did you go?

Miguel Ventura  10:41

Well, I was just doing artwork, trying to be an print maker.

Kris Hampton  10:45

Living the artist life. 

Miguel Ventura  10:46

Living the the Bohemian artistic life.

Kris Hampton  10:50

Yeah. What's the I mean, you you fell right back into that bohemian lifestyle here, which is pretty interesting.

Miguel Ventura  10:57

I think the climbers all have that in them. In a way they're artists themselves. But 

Kris Hampton  11:03

Yeah, totally. 

Miguel Ventura  11:03

And bohemian on top of that. But, yeah...

Kris Hampton  11:08

What brought you here to Kentucky?

Miguel Ventura  11:10

Well, Kentucky was like I had I was in Rhode Island and I met Neville Pohl. Okay, I met him and we got we were asked to take some artwork out west and a big semi truck. 

Kris Hampton  11:30

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  11:30

And that we were paid to do this. So we made a big trip out of it. 

Kris Hampton  11:35

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  11:35

Went across country up Northern California and came down to San Diego but and that my life then started out there in the art world. That's where I really focused on it. 

Kris Hampton  11:46

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  11:47

But yeah, arts always been part of my escape, kind of like climbers do climbing to escape some of their things or whatever. But it's, it's a focus, you focus and you let your emotions out whatever you have. You put it on paper. 

Kris Hampton  12:06

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  12:07

Or whatever. I did etchings, so that was my...

Kris Hampton  12:10

Yeah, I've seen some I saw one of your prints that Dario his house?

Miguel Ventura  12:13

 Yeah.

Kris Hampton  12:13

I'm gonna have to have a Miguel in my house someday.

Miguel Ventura  12:16

Someday, we can do that.

Kris Hampton  12:17

Yeah, you should totally start making them again and selling them to climbers.

Miguel Ventura  12:21

I still have the plates in my crawlspace of my house or stashed in a box down there.

Kris Hampton  12:26

Yeah, you should do it, you would be in high demand. And this...

Miguel Ventura  12:29

 Really, you know, I art it to me is always. So I play that role of being an artist and, and loved it, you know, but like, we were talking early, you know, art becomes like part of your ego. And you people, you go to a party and said, so what do you do? Well, I'm an artist.

Kris Hampton  12:49

 Yeah, yeah.

Miguel Ventura  12:50

 And that got to me once. And internally, I felt uncomfortable with that. So one day, for some reason, I was doodling. And this doodle came out with this image that I said, wow. It just inspired me. I said, I'm everything. I'm just just not an artist. And that's when I gave up doing art and moved away from California and came back east. And it was basically was the drawing of this little care... cartoon character lifting up, like a costume of an artist. And he's going in it. So he's... 

Kris Hampton  13:28

Oh, yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  13:30

Can you imagine that image? 

Kris Hampton  13:31

Totally.

Miguel Ventura  13:31

So he's putting on that costume of an artist.

Kris Hampton  13:34

Right.

Miguel Ventura  13:35

 And realizing that you don't need a costume to be a person. You just need to be there all along?

Kris Hampton  13:42

Yeah. Didn't need that outfit.

Miguel Ventura  13:44

Yeah. So I threw that outfit out. And I became who I am today. A pizza man.

Kris Hampton  13:52

I think you're a lot more than a pizza man.

Miguel Ventura  13:54

But I mean, it was inspiring to that you could do anything. You could be anything. And so that little drawing, I still have it. I kept it. And that was the most inspiring drawing I've ever had out of all the artwork I've ever done,

Kris Hampton  14:08

Well I think he's carried that on. I mean, when you came here and bought this place, it was just a little a little shack basically.

Miguel Ventura  14:15

Yeah, it was really.

Kris Hampton  14:16

You know, when I first started climbing here, 22 years ago, I remember it being just a little shack with...

Miguel Ventura  14:23

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  14:23

 And almost no people here. 

Miguel Ventura  14:25

Yeah, there was nobody here it was. But again, you you just it's like any other piece of work. You start. And you stick with it.

Kris Hampton  14:35

Yeah. And just like just like your art teacher gave you crayons because you didn't know the language and you guys couldn't communicate. You didn't necessarily know the climber language back then. 

Miguel Ventura  14:45

No. 

Kris Hampton  14:45

So you just had these crayons and you're like...

Miguel Ventura  14:48

Let's paint a picture.

Kris Hampton  14:49

 Let's build this thing and learn how to talk to these people through that.

Miguel Ventura  14:52

Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. 

Kris Hampton  14:54

Yeah, I think that's I think that's super, super cool. Let's talk about just so you know, the people who are around get to know what the history is here. Let's let's look at once you bought this place It was called the Jot em Down Store.

Miguel Ventura  15:09

Yeah, from some guy from Cincinnati and had started that down here.

Kris Hampton  15:14

 Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  15:15

But yeah, we it was an abandoned building. We just cleaned it up and started selling ice cream. Yeah, that was the beginning of that. Because we didn't have any way of making money. And as I was driving all the way to Winchester for work at a horse farm, 

Kris Hampton  15:31

Right.

Miguel Ventura  15:31

 I was raising vegetables for these nice people really. And but so we were stuck out here and we had to create something.

Kris Hampton  15:39

Yeah. Did it already have a pizza oven? Was that?

Miguel Ventura  15:42

No, there was nothing there was a gift shop originally. And so we just started Susan said let's start with ice cream. And then after the ice cream went the climber started hanging out in ice cream those the team from Cincinnati, Ohio. 

Kris Hampton  15:58

Yep. Yep.

Miguel Ventura  15:59

All those guys.

Kris Hampton  16:00

All the old traddies.

Miguel Ventura  16:01

 All the old traddies. Yeah, Keith Phelps and 

Kris Hampton  16:04

Tom Souders.

Miguel Ventura  16:05

 Tom Souders. Yeah, awesome people. They were genuine, awesome people. It's hard to find people like that. But yeah. And they they wanted something to eat. And that's how we then said, Okay, well, let's just pizzas' good. Yeah. And I've had a like a little background and dealing with pizza dough, and not so much pizza, but just breadmaking in our village, we ground all the flour for all the village. So we... 

Kris Hampton  16:35

your family did?

Miguel Ventura  16:35

Our family did so my grandparents were involved. And we had like, a grits mill that we that my grandfather had built? 

Kris Hampton  16:43

Oh Cool. 

Miguel Ventura  16:44

So we ground all the flour for the whole community and

Kris Hampton  16:49

Would the community come there? 

Miguel Ventura  16:50

Come there. And then we would negotiate like, you know, you give us so much flour for grinding the rest, you know, and then we would also you know, bake bread and and you could take it my grandparents would take it to the city and sell it and they sold whatever cheese they produce their own cheese and sold that. So I was around that as a baby as a child.

Kris Hampton  17:12

Yeah. And you're kind of repeating that now on a larger scale. You know, this is the community plate.

Miguel Ventura  17:19

 I guess.

Kris Hampton  17:19

This is where everybody comes. 

Miguel Ventura  17:20

Yeah, the Yeah, you know, I only grew up around it for seven years. But it was interesting. It stayed with me, you know? And down deep somewhere. Probably.

Kris Hampton  17:33

Yeah. And then when did you is... It seems to me that for a long time, it was still just that one little room?

Miguel Ventura  17:41

Yeah. You mean for the like?

Kris Hampton  17:44

The pizza place.

Miguel Ventura  17:45

 The pizza place. Yeah, they're a little tiny space that we and held up a pizza oven that cook three with a piece of stick? 

Kris Hampton  17:52

Yes. 

Miguel Ventura  17:53

We stuck it out the window. 

Kris Hampton  17:55

Yeah, totally. 

Miguel Ventura  17:56

Yeah, that was that was crazy. What we got away with back here then with a out house. Not a bathroom. 

Kris Hampton  18:02

Yep. Yep, it was. And there was you know, there, there weren't all these buildings that are here now the pavilions and the shelters and you know, If I, the parking lot was really small.

Miguel Ventura  18:12

Yeah, yeah. And then they 

Kris Hampton  18:14

The Love Shack was back there.

Miguel Ventura  18:15

 Yeah. The old Love Shack. Yeah. Porter. Yeah, all those guys. You know, we we lived in it for a year and a half or so while we're building our cabin. And then all the climbers took it over. Yeah, till they get so dangerous because they were using the building for firewood to keep themselves warm in there. And what it just got, like so dangerous because there's nothing structurally holding it up. 

Kris Hampton  18:41

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  18:41

It's kind of terrifying. So I just said..

Kris Hampton  18:43

Porter wasburning his own house down to stay warm.

Miguel Ventura  18:47

We Well, the Canadians are the ones that were doing that more because then all the Canadians came down after Porter. Because they knew Porter. 

Kris Hampton  18:56

Yep. 

Miguel Ventura  18:56

So he invited them while they were 30 of them out here at one time living in their vans. And then they started taking that thing apart. And one day I went in there I saw just one wall just had a little board says that this thing's gonna fall on you guys. So I put a big piece of plywood on the door and kept them out. But they still crawled in through the windows. 

Kris Hampton  19:16

Yeah, for sure. 

Miguel Ventura  19:17

And then that winter, I said I'm gonna, you know, I burned you know, we have a fire department up and yeah...

Kris Hampton  19:23

I think it was falling apart by the time that that I was here.

Miguel Ventura  19:26

Showing up.

Kris Hampton  19:27

 Like it was...

Miguel Ventura  19:27

You know Ed Mank was living upstairs too. 

Kris Hampton  19:30

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  19:31

 Yeah, it's

Kris Hampton  19:32

 Ed's still around.

Miguel Ventura  19:33

He's still here. 

Kris Hampton  19:34

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  19:34

He's quite a character.

Kris Hampton  19:37

Yeah. So when Porter came it kind of started to explode shortly after, like, nothing like it is now but....

Miguel Ventura  19:44

No, no, no. Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  19:45

Pretty big. 

Miguel Ventura  19:46

Well, he wrote that first. 

Kris Hampton  19:48

The first little guide. 

Miguel Ventura  19:50

Well, no, before he that he wrote that article...

Kris Hampton  19:52

The article.

Miguel Ventura  19:52

Rock and Ice. The jaws of the Red or some kind of shark. 

Miguel Ventura  19:55

I remember that. Yep. Yep.

Miguel Ventura  19:56

 Pretty cool the shark. And Twinkie was like, the big one back then. 

Kris Hampton  20:04

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  20:05

Like, what is it? 12 something?

Kris Hampton  20:07

 12a yeah.

Miguel Ventura  20:08

 That was like, everybody had it come from there. And it's like, yeah.

Kris Hampton  20:11

Yeah, no place else in the world really has that kind of climbing. 

Miguel Ventura  20:16

Oh, really?

Kris Hampton  20:16

 It's pretty unique to here. When did you start adding on like?

Miguel Ventura  20:22

Well, after porters showed up, I mean, it's like, within, you know, two years. It just started, people were showing up from Europe. And so it was it got built up. So we started building more shelters. And...

Kris Hampton  20:37

You built in kitchen, right? Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  20:39

Built an addition to the kitchen. And um.

Kris Hampton  20:43

I think one of the crazy things people don't realize is that the basement you know.

Miguel Ventura  20:48

It was a crawlspace. 

Kris Hampton  20:50

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  20:50

Yeah, it was. Yeah, we kept our trash down there.

Kris Hampton  20:53

Yeah, I remember and Porter dug it out right?

Miguel Ventura  20:55

No. It was me, Roger, and Kenton. 

Kris Hampton  21:00

Oh right.

Miguel Ventura  21:01

One winter we got down there. It was all sand. It's, we dug all that by hand. 

Kris Hampton  21:06

Wow. 

Miguel Ventura  21:07

It was we went down four feet, four feet of sand. It was amazing. We dug it all out. And then Por... we asked Porter come in and show us how to protect that, you know, the structure.

Kris Hampton  21:21

Make it structural.

Miguel Ventura  21:22

 Yeah, the foundation, how to protect it. He came in while he was going by climbing he was stopped in for an hour and advice, give us advice on it. And yeah, that was pretty good.

Kris Hampton  21:33

 You know, I think one of the hallmarks, in my opinion of, you know, a good artist, is that they're able to kind of ride on the front of whatever waves are happening, you know, and they kind of create the, you know, for lack of a better word that the image of what this new wave looks like, you know, I think that's what artists do a lot of the times and I think you were able to even though you want to be humble about it, and give and and Martin deserves credit for sure. 

Miguel Ventura  22:06

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  22:07

And so do so does Porter, so is everyone who built it, but but you were able to ride on the front of that wave and keep expanding for this community that was just exploding year after year after year. And you're still doing it every time I every season. I come back here. There's something new. 

Miguel Ventura  22:24

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  22:25

And you've expanded to fill the needs that are about to happen. 

Miguel Ventura  22:30

Exactly.

Kris Hampton  22:30

You know, I think that's super important. And it feels creative. It feels you know, you were on the front end of the first time I ever saw pizza that had more than just pepperoni, sausage, onions and mushrooms... 

Miguel Ventura  22:43

Really? Ok.

Kris Hampton  22:43

...was here.

Miguel Ventura  22:45

Well, that was all inspired by climbers themselves. Don't give me any credit like corn on the pizza was that was a Crieg.

Kris Hampton  22:54

That was Sam.

Miguel Ventura  22:54

Sam Creig said, we gotta have some corn on this pizza. Okay, sure. Let's put it on there. 

Kris Hampton  23:00

Yeah, and... 

Miguel Ventura  23:00

I personally don't like it. But corn on the Pizza. 

Kris Hampton  23:03

Sure. So did you ever get into climbing yourself? I know you...

Miguel Ventura  23:08

A little bit with Martin and Keith, they would take me out I did, like roadside. You know, all those little sevens and eights. You know Arachnid was I thought that was my favorite. That was fun. 

Kris Hampton  23:22

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  23:22

But I never really took it up as, as, you know, didn't really inspire me that much climbing. I really enjoyed the art part more side of things. 

Kris Hampton  23:34

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  23:35

And they gave me the same thrill. But it's, I was fun. I mean, I enjoyed that time of it, that I did a little bit of that and then moved on, you know, it's like, like anything else I've done with my life.

Kris Hampton  23:47

Yeah. And you're so connected to the community here. What's what's this community give back to you if it's not climbing that you're super interested in?

Miguel Ventura  23:56

Well, I, I just, you know, climbers. In general, the majority of them, they're not the typical every day, you know, even though they all go to college, and they want to go to college and then graduate and have a job, but the ones that are got into climbing their... They have something more a little spark beyond that. And they're looking for some adventure in their lives. And I've always felt that way about my life. So you know, I'm not a cookie cutter thing, you know? 

Kris Hampton  24:30

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  24:31

I like to explore and, and I think climbers have that in them. And that's what I think I enjoy about climbers. 

Kris Hampton  24:39

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  24:39

 Is that adventure, to be able to, you know, create something out of nothing sometimes. 

Kris Hampton  24:48

Yeah, totally.

Miguel Ventura  24:48

 Like, you know, you have to have that to survive in this world. If you don't have that, then you're, you're doomed.

Kris Hampton  24:54

Yep. Yeah. And, you know, I think, I think this space that you've created here like I started climbing here when I was 19 or so. And, and it seems like when I think back, like a lot of my formative moments happened down here, and the time that I spent, you know, reliving those moments and analyzing those moments, a lot of it happened sitting in your dining room or sleeping in your parking lot, or, or whatever, you know, so this place feels like I grew up here, you know, and I think a lot of people go through that.

Miguel Ventura  25:32

Yeah, yeah, I think that's what we provide here it gives you an opportunity to take time out and to look at your life. I mean, because I did the same thing. When I was in California traveling, I, you know, I traveled a lot out there. And I had a lot of moments, I would go out to the desert by myself and camp out. 

Kris Hampton  25:53

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  25:53

And look at it, look at everything, we're different without any influence around you just by yourself. And that's really good to have. And this place kind of gives you that, you know, like the kids can come here, young people, and work for us, and take time out and save a little cash to go on a trip. And that gives them a year to go and explore that. Like I did. I mean, I did that, you know, even though I didn't go to school after but it's you know, it's good to take a little break. Look at it, and go back into it. Because you got to go back into it. There's no way you can escape it. 

Kris Hampton  26:34

Yeah, yeah, it's gonna

Miguel Ventura  26:36

Try. Yeah, you gotta go back into it. 

Kris Hampton  26:40

Yeah, for sure

Miguel Ventura  26:41

It's part of it. Otherwise you won't be fulfilled if you're not part of it. 

Kris Hampton  26:44

Yeah. And you get to see those kids come back year after year. Like a lot of them stay here for several years. 

Miguel Ventura  26:50

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  26:50

And work their summers even though summer might be the worst season to climb here. They're like, this place is home. That's this is where I go for the summer. 

Miguel Ventura  26:59

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, yeah. Every year. There's more and more and yeah, this is their little home for a short time. Not permanently.

Kris Hampton  27:08

Yeah, that's probably a good thing for your sanity. 

Miguel Ventura  27:11

Yeah. Yeah. Not permanently.

Kris Hampton  27:12

That you're not raising 1000s of teenagers.

Miguel Ventura  27:14

 No, I don't want to.

Kris Hampton  27:17

Yeah, but but you know what? You've done a great job with the kids. You do have? 

Miguel Ventura  27:21

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  27:22

Dario is amazing. Sarah is amazing. I don't know Mark nearly as well, but he seems like a cool kid every time I'm around him. You know, in my mind, Mark's still five. 

Miguel Ventura  27:32

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  27:32

So it's hard to see him now and be like, oh my god. How old am I? 

Miguel Ventura  27:37

Yeah, he's just became 21. 

Kris Hampton  27:40

Yeah. And your grandpa? 

Miguel Ventura  27:42

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  27:43

You got...

Miguel Ventura  27:43

Three children. Three grand children.

Kris Hampton  27:44

You got cool grand kids. 

Miguel Ventura  27:45

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  27:46

Yeah. How's that?

Miguel Ventura  27:48

It's good. I mean, I enjoyed the spe..., you know, the time with them. And. And I think the reason that is what's inspiring me to do art again, you know, you could, you could leave in, you know, your money and stuff. And they could burn that up in no time. But if you leave them some artwork, that's why I want to get back into it. 

Kris Hampton  28:09

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  28:09

To leave them some kind of art they can put up in a wall, and they can remember you. 

Kris Hampton  28:14

Yeah, 

Miguel Ventura  28:15

After you're gone. Where's Anything else? It's just gone. 

Kris Hampton  28:18

Yeah. Well, you've got this legacy to, you know, that you've really, really fostered and built down here. And I remember reading and an article years ago that you said that you were talking about how your kids are on to rock climbing and you said, "My son's a little too much into it. I wish he would run the business more." You know, how's, how's he doing now?

Miguel Ventura  28:39

He's doing really good. Yeah, he's really hahaha,

Kris Hampton  28:43

He's back here listening. So

Miguel Ventura  28:45

Yeah. Dario's. Dario's. He's he's stepped up to the plate. He's knows what he's doing. He knows he's very creative. Like me. 

Kris Hampton  28:52

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  28:53

And yeah, I think it's just takes time. You know, a little bit of I think it also my wife needs to give them more freedom to do it more. 

Kris Hampton  29:04

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  29:05

Ror Susie. 

Kris Hampton  29:05

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  29:06

 She's not totally comfortable yet.

Kris Hampton  29:08

She's not comfortable letting go of the reins? 

Miguel Ventura  29:10

 Yeah, the reins. 

Kris Hampton  29:11

That's tough to do. Yeah. Yeah, that's hard. How are you handling it?

Miguel Ventura  29:16

Awesome. 

Kris Hampton  29:16

You're just ready to hand them over. Yeah. Like Dario, take this thing. I don't want it.

Miguel Ventura  29:21

I think so. I think I'm ready. 

Kris Hampton  29:23

Well, I think you're in a good spot. You know, you get to see all these kids you've essentially raised, you know, they've all grown up under your roofs. And, you know, now you've got grandkids you need to enjoy and 

Miguel Ventura  29:37

Yeah, the little things.

Kris Hampton  29:38

I think that's a good idea to hand it off. 

Miguel Ventura  29:40

Yeah. It's Yeah, it's at a point that it's grown enough and it's kind of maintaining itself pretty well. So, it's really good. You know, the whole thing too is that Dario's  always been and Mark we raised them in a with a spirit of you know, that we're all you know, we have like some merit, you know, and all people have merit and to treat everybody with that, you know, with a certain what's the word respect or something, you know that we're all need to respect one another and stuff. And that's the way you know, it should be. I've raised them that way. And I think they do that.

Kris Hampton  30:32

Yeah, I think they do as well. Yeah. And, you know, it's been pretty cool to watch Dario. So I first started climbing here he was, he was pretty young. 

Miguel Ventura  30:40

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  30:40

And it's, it's really fun to watch him become such a part of this community and a pillar in this community. Really, I mean, everybody knows who he is. He's a stand up guy in every situation. And everybody respects him. You know, I don't think I'll ever hear a bad word about Dario. Because I think he's just a super good guy. And everybody realizes that. And that's, you know, that's in no small part. Because of you. You know, that's 

Miguel Ventura  31:09

Right. 

Kris Hampton  31:10

What are you done here and built building? This community was huge for him as a kid. 

Miguel Ventura  31:15

Yeah. Yeah, you have to. But one thing I've learned about all that, too, there, you know, in life, there are two types of people that are givers and there are takers, and you have to know who you want to hang out with too.

Kris Hampton  31:27

Oh, yeah. No doubt. 

Miguel Ventura  31:28

Really. That's so important. Because you keep bring yourself down. So it's got to be a balance. 

Kris Hampton  31:34

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  31:35

And I'm trying to teach that into them.

Kris Hampton  31:37

Yeah. Well, that's that's really great. 

Miguel Ventura  31:39

That's that's the one thing that has to be learned.

Kris Hampton  31:43

Good for life. Before we wrap this up, do you? What's your like? craziest standout Miguel's story? What do you remember happening around here? That was the craziest thing you remember?

Miguel Ventura  31:58

 I don't. Oh, there's been probably a lot that...

Kris Hampton  32:02

 Other than the Spencer victory fireballs?

Miguel Ventura  32:06

Well, I think I think one one. What was it for Thanksgiving? Or was it maybe it was Halloween? Our first Halloween, I think? I don't know if you heard this story. There was two drag queens showed up. 

Kris Hampton  32:21

No.

Miguel Ventura  32:24

 Dress it really hot clothes. And I really thought they were women. And they were underneath. Remember the old basketball court? 

Kris Hampton  32:35

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  32:36

 They were under there. And they they were like, they wanted a party or something. So somebody told me, there's two ladies here. They want a party. What kind of party they're into. So I go over it. And and I said, What's going on here? You know, what kind of party you're looking for. And they said, Oh, we just want to party. And since we know Miguel really well, and he said, we can hang out here and party and stuff. I said, Oh, that's cool. You know Miguel? And I just let it go, you know, and I just said, Well, this place here these climbers, you know, they're, they're not much into partying right now. They were you know, they climb all day. They're tired. They're burnt out. 

Kris Hampton  33:18

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  33:18

They just go to bed. So okay, so and they just moved on. It was really funny. That was interesting.

Kris Hampton  33:27

Hilarious. Well, you know, there are rumors that you don't actually exist. 

Miguel Ventura  33:30

Oh, really? Good.

Kris Hampton  33:32

 Because you're not around during the day. I Know.

Miguel Ventura  33:34

Well, let's let's do it. Keep it up.

Kris Hampton  33:36

I've heard it. I've heard the rumors that Miguel's isn't actually a real person.

Miguel Ventura  33:40

Yeah, that's, that's true. 

Kris Hampton  33:42

Yeah.

Miguel Ventura  33:43

That's true. I made that drawing up. But uh I don't have any hair anymore. Any blonde hair anymore.

Kris Hampton  33:51

Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate you sitting down with me. Congrats on another succesful season.

Miguel Ventura  33:57

Well, I've always enjoyed you, Kris. Thank you for...

Kris Hampton  34:00

 Well, I'll be back.

Miguel Ventura  34:01

 I've always enjoyed hanging out with you. And you've always been a motivation to me, especially with your artwork, too. 

Kris Hampton  34:07

Thanks man. Yeah, thanks for sitting down with me. I'm gonna have a Miguel on my walls eventually.

Miguel Ventura  34:12

We will, i'll definitely. I'm a... Just, yeah, I have plenty. I need to get those plates out and print some, you know, small edition or something. And I will I'll definitely do that.

Kris Hampton  34:25

Yeah, I would love it. I'd like to maybe one of the once we get a house built in Wyoming once we're officially moved we'll a... Maybe I'll see if I can get you to carve something for me. 

Miguel Ventura  34:35

That'd be pretty that would be reasonably I can do that. 

Kris Hampton  34:38

Yeah. 

Miguel Ventura  34:38

You just have to tell me what you want.

Kris Hampton  34:40

Yeah, I would love to by carving. Okay. Awesome. Thanks, Miguel. I really appreciate it. 

Miguel Ventura  34:45

Okay.

Kris Hampton  34:50

 Wow. I definitely owe a great deal of gratitude to Miguel for fostering this community that he has because it you know, becoming a part of this community really changed my life in a pretty dramatic way. So huge thanks to Miguel for sitting down and talking with me and man hearing the story about the drawing and, you know, this costume he realized he was wearing that's really powerful. And I think it takes a great deal of maturity to, to realize you're in that place and to try and shed that costume and it's and it's kind of something you you know, you might struggle with for quite a long time and, and you really reach a really great peaceful place when you are able to shed those clothes and and it's pretty cool to see what Miguel's done with that. And next up, we've got Dario Ventura, Miguel son, who's now basically taking over the business and he's become, like I said, a pillar in this community. And Dario has been a friend of mine for a long time, so, so stay tuned. And after the commercial break, we will talk with Dario.

Kris Hampton  36:10

 What's up everybody, Kris here, Pardon the Interruption. I'll keep this short and sweet. Since this podcast started taking off, and we've been growing it, you guys have been asking how you can help out, I've got three ways for you. Number one, you can become a patron. That just means you give a monthly donation to the podcast $1 and up, and you get something in return. And you can check out what those rewards are at patreon.com/powercompanypodcast. Best of all, we'll keep it sponsored and commercial free for you. Number two, you can rate us and review us on iTunes. I know it's a pain in the ass to go to iTunes and do all that. But it really helps us out. At least that's what I'm told by the podcast powers that be. And number three, perhaps the easiest way and the best way to help us out is to share us on your social medias. Anytime you see us post up a new podcast, please share it with your friends, tag people who will really appreciate it, or who need to hear the advice that we're giving. All right, thank you guys. And back to the show. 

Kris Hampton  37:15

Man, that sucks. 

Dario Ventura  37:16

I know 

Kris Hampton  37:18

That's what you get for helping people

Dario Ventura  37:19

I don't have a choice about that.

Kris Hampton  37:24

Man, so. So I just want to get your perspective. Like, as you know, when I first started climbing here what I was that was 22 years ago. How old are you now?

Dario Ventura  37:34

About to be 33?

Kris Hampton  37:35

So you were like, an 11 year old? Yeah, at the time.

Dario Ventura  37:40

I had a sick bowl cut.

Kris Hampton  37:42

You did have a sick bowl cut. That's awesome. What was this place like for you as an 11 year old or as a you know, even younger because Porter and Snyde and all those guys were around before, before I got here. 

Dario Ventura  37:56

Uh, I guess it was like, I was also I was homeschooled. So I was here a lot. And so I spent a lot of time just hanging around them on rest days for them. So I guess for me, it was just like, having a playground of extremely old friends.

Kris Hampton  38:15

Extremely old and nutty.

Dario Ventura  38:17

And crazy. Which I think in turn made me feel pretty comfortable around most people because they will, you know, they're an odd crew, you know?

Kris Hampton  38:27

Yeah, I think you know, if you're homeschooled, and, you know, especially in a community like this, where it's backwoods Kentucky, basically, that that could lead to not being very social, not understanding how to move through a community but but those guys kind of took you under their wings if I remember right.

Dario Ventura  38:48

 Oh, yeah. 

Kris Hampton  38:48

When I first started coming down here, you were like, the cool popular kid, everybody was psyched to win you around. 

Dario Ventura  38:55

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  38:56

So having all those friends from all these different places all the time? You know, I think you've I just told your Dad, I think you've become this really important part of the worldwide climbing community. Really, everybody knows you. And everybody respects you. And I think that's, you know, and yeah, partially due to that that upbringing here. 

Dario Ventura  39:19

Yeah, I mean, I guess. Yeah. I don't know. I just, I feel very fortunate. because like you said, like, even when I went to regular school and like, kind of got out of my climbing bubble. 

Kris Hampton  39:32

Yeah.

Dario Ventura  39:34

 Then and I got to feel the side of like, no one knows you. I was not the cool kid. 

Kris Hampton  39:40

Right. 

Dario Ventura  39:41

But no I feel fortunate because I think that I was very cultured for living in a very uncultured area.

Kris Hampton  39:49

 Yeah. 

Dario Ventura  39:50

And that's, I mean, I guess that's contributed to you know what my dad started in this whole thing, but it's lucky.

Kris Hampton  39:59

Yeah.

Dario Ventura  39:59

Lucky is the best way to put it I guess.

Kris Hampton  40:01

Yeah. And I've watched you gradually kind of start to take the reins of the business and, you know, continue this thing that your dad's been doing. And I admire that he's, and I have admired this for years that he, and you and everybody here kind of grows it with the community, like, you guys seem like you're right on the front edge of knowing what the community needs, and, and then providing that before we even know it needed. 

Dario Ventura  40:28

Right. 

Kris Hampton  40:28

And I think it's cool that you're taking that over? And, you know, continuing to grow it.

Dario Ventura  40:35

Yeah, I mean, I think, if you have one, if I think it's easier for us, maybe, and I don't know if we noticed it on purpose, because we're just so in, in deep in like the climbing community, and dealing with the people every day that like the needs are not necessarily like, you know, I always talk to people, and they're like, so how did you plan this out? Or how did you, you know, how did this come about? And I don't think many of our plans come about that way. It's more like, it becomes a necessity. And then we're like, well, this is what needs to be done next, which is kind of like a never ending spiral tunnel, because there's always something next

Kris Hampton  41:16

Yeah, sure.

Dario Ventura  41:16

 But...

Kris Hampton  41:17

And this place just keeps exploding.

Dario Ventura  41:19

Exploding. Yeah. So but I mean, now it's come to a point where it's like, you know, now we're just kind of like, Whoa...

Kris Hampton  41:27

Yeah.

Dario Ventura  41:28

This place is great. But who knows? I mean, I think my dad's always assumes sometimes that, that maybe it's the need is not there, but we'll still provide it. But then every time we assume that the need is filled. So it's kind of like, we're always kind of like, surprised, and people are like, why are you surprised? Like, I don't know. Maybe we're too humble, or I don't know what the deal is.

Kris Hampton  41:53

I think you are I think both you and your dad are like, humble almost to a fault. 

Dario Ventura  41:58

Yeah. Sometimes I think we...

Kris Hampton  42:00

You both want to give credit elsewhere not take credit. And, man, I think what you guys do here is super special, super important thing. I mean, Miguel's and I know, you've heard this term that it's been called the Camp 4 the east, right. And I've spent a little bit of time at Camp 4.

Dario Ventura  42:17

Camp 4 sucks.

Kris Hampton  42:17

And at this point, I would argue that Camp 4 isn't even quite the Miguel's of the west. This place is way cooler.

Dario Ventura  42:25

I know. I grew up always hearing about Camp 4 from climbers and be like, yeah, this place is... And then when I finally went to Camp 4, and I was like, sneaking in Ross Clune to sleep in a tent with me. So he wouldn't get kicked out. Like, this is not? Miguel's not the Camp 4 of the south.

Kris Hampton  42:44

Yeah, it's just you know, the history is out there. Those guys, you know, romanticize that history and wrote about it. So it's become this larger than life thing. But Miguel's really is a life size large thing. Like it's it's real, it's here, it doesn't need the romanticizing. Because it's true.

Dario Ventura  43:05

 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I just think maybe why it's come to that. I mean, I know my dad doesn't like to take credit for but I think that they believed in, I guess you could call it outdoor industry, maybe not just the outdoor industry in general. Way before, it actually really existed.

Kris Hampton  43:26

 Yeah. 

Dario Ventura  43:27

And by believing it, like it just gives you a step up, because you're like, you're the person that's trying, but you know, you're you just have a step up on everyone. Not because you planned it, or did some diagram like most business people would do? 

Kris Hampton  43:43

Yeah

Dario Ventura  43:44

You just like, are there and you believe and you stick it out long enough that eventually it pays off? 

Kris Hampton  43:49

Yeah, that's huge.

Dario Ventura  43:50

 And I, you know, people come to us a lot. And they're like, so you know, what's the secret is like, honestly, you just have to, like, lose money for like, 20 years. And live really poor and then eventually it'll, then you eventually it pays off. 

Kris Hampton  44:04

Yeah, just keep believing in yourself, even when it's tough. 

Dario Ventura  44:06

Yeah

Kris Hampton  44:07

Even when they're like 12 dirty climbers are your only customers. 

Dario Ventura  44:10

Yeah, exactly. And the wait is like two hours for a pizza and your just like, but no one cared. You know, it's just... Yeah, because, yeah, I know, people don't realize like, we're kids how poor we really were, you know?

Kris Hampton  44:25

Yeah. Was there a point as like, a young adult when you were like, there's no way I'm taking this business over?

Dario Ventura  44:32

 Yeah, uh, I mean, when I went to, when I left to go to college, I had no desire to do. I want I wanted to go to school. And actually, I wanted to go into business, but I wanted to like, I don't know, I think at that time, I didn't even think of Miguel's as a business. 

Kris Hampton  44:50

Right. 

Dario Ventura  44:50

You know, because it had not really blossomed into what it is now. So and then I went to business school and then I started learning what they were teaching in business school and it was like this cutthroat, like, how to put your neighbor out of business attitude and I was like..

Kris Hampton  45:04

 Yeah

Dario Ventura  45:04

And I grew up in a area where we are literally the only business and that we never had to deal with that, you know, just just like everyone was just kind of easygoing. And I was really turned off by it. And then it almost drew me back to this business because I was like, that's the side of the business I like. Like this family kind of like, oriented like, low cutthroat attitude, you know, is it turned me off?

Kris Hampton  45:30

Yeah. And you've now you know, you've got Cedar your daughter, you're married. And Emily's amazing. And you know, your family is here. 

Dario Ventura  45:40

Yeah.

Kris Hampton  45:40

You guys, you have moved down here to the same area. 

Dario Ventura  45:43

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  45:44

And are continuing this business. And so you must you must have turned that corner and feel really good about this place now. 

Dario Ventura  45:52

Yeah, I mean, it's yeah, it's definitely I wouldn't go anywhere else. 

Kris Hampton  45:56

Yeah.

Dario Ventura  45:57

And yeah, and it's awesome. And my wife, she loves climbing and, and it's just it's perfect for us. And...

Kris Hampton  46:03

Yeah, there was a while there were I wondered if you would continue climbing. 

Dario Ventura  46:07

Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  46:08

I was curious about how how you saw it being pretty much the only true local down here.

Dario Ventura  46:14

 Yeah. 

Kris Hampton  46:14

You know, and no other locals here climb. 

Dario Ventura  46:17

Right.

Kris Hampton  46:18

 You know, I thought I wonder if Dario will keep climbing, but it seems like it's just gotten stronger over the years. Like...

Dario Ventura  46:23

Yeah, I think I think that I've just, I've I think when like any kid if you grow up in something with something and you know, I grew up around everyone be like, yeah, you need to be a rock climber. You needed to like, go crush, like you kind of get overwhelmed by it. And then now that I'm back here, and I'm climbing a lot again now it's, it's, it really is like a enjoyment for me and a freedom that I look forward to every day. And I mean, I don't know if I'd want to live in Slade Kentucky if I was a rock climber. 

Kris Hampton  46:58

Yeah. Yeah, and I think you know, I can see that crag. 

Dario Ventura  47:03

Yeah

Kris Hampton  47:04

You're definitely enjoying it. Yeah. Emily's enjoying it. And Cedar's just the coolest kid to have around at the crag. Yeah, she comes up with the best names for...Which I thought I was good at. She's way better so. But yeah, man, I'm, I'm super stoked that you're taking this over and continuing this thing. And you're such an important part of this community. Because I've, you know, I've decided that my life is needs to be lived inside this community. Yeah. I'm stoked to be able to be a part of it with you.

Dario Ventura  47:37

Yeah, me too, man. Yeah, it's, uh, hopefully continues. That's my hope. I hope this place just stays good. Like it is right now for till I die at least?

Kris Hampton  47:48

I don't, I don't think it's gonna go any other way. You guys have done something special here. So thanks for taking a few minutes. And you know, Cedar’s up with grandma or grandpa now, so...

Dario Ventura  47:58

I got some freedom.

Kris Hampton  48:00

I'll let you have that. 

Dario Ventura  48:01

Alright. Thanks, Kris. 

Kris Hampton  48:02

Yeah, thanks, man. It's been really inspiring for me, to see the way that Dario has built this family. And you know, his family is an integral part of the Red River community. And he just remains a pretty cool guy. And, you know, he doesn't let it go to his head, which is pretty amazing to me. Yeah, so thanks to both of you, Dario and Miguel. And I appreciate you guys sitting down and chatting with me for a little while. I know you're busy, especially in the fall, which is when somehow I talked to him to sit down. So I appreciate that. Thank you. And to all of you guys out there. Thanks for the successful 2016 looking forward to making 2017 bigger, better and even more inspiring, and we'll see you guys there for sure. Anytime you have suggestions you want to say hello. You know where you can find us on most of your social medias? On the the Pinterest, the Instagrams, the Facebook's, at powercompanyclimbing.com. But you won't find us on the Twitter. Why? Because we don't tweet. We scream like eagles.